Galt's Gulch

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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 1 month ago
    I can't think of a clearer case to use a gun. There were ten people allegedly harassing two people. The person who fired the gun didn't run from the police. The idea she should have waited for police is laughable. If she knew there were an officer 60s away on foot, that would be one thing. But you shouldn't telephone them and just wait.
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    • Posted by $ johnrobert2 12 years, 1 month ago
      Not only that but she did not have her cellphone with her. I guess she should have, without any forethought, pulled the weapon and started shooting the perps. Now her daughter has disappeared, possibly kidnapped by the thugs who accosted them, and may be in mortal danger, if not worse. Of course, the LEOs are probably not interested in finding HER, just justifying their actions at the scene. Damn, I hate to be so pugnacious but this kind of stuff irritates me to no end. These LEOs cannot see beyond the rule book and use some common sense.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 1 month ago
        I agree with this. I don't immediately see what the political angle is. I imagine the officers who responded see any use of force outside of law enforcement as either complicating their jobs or crimes. LE should be trained to work with people who are trying to fight crime, even if they don't agree with a citizen's every action.

        Does anyone here know how dangerous a bullet fired straight up is? I imagine it hurting like the dickens if it landed on your head but not doing any real damage.
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        • Posted by LionelHutz 12 years, 1 month ago
          I believe bullets fired STRAIGHT UP aren't going to be very dangerous because they should erratically tumble on the way down. However, that's a pretty tight mathematical constraint to actually meet. You're usually going to be at some angle, even when you THINK you're shooting vertically, and in this case the bullet is going to stay on its parabolic arc on the return-path with spin-stabilization intact and could come down with lethal force. I'm not sure what the tolerances on this are.
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        • Posted by $ johnrobert2 12 years, 1 month ago
          A bullet fired straight up can kill if it strikes someone on its return. This area issues warnings about doing this on New Year's Eve because it is a prevalent practice. Bullets have been known to penetrate roofs and damage the interiors of homes. There is a precedent for the restriction on a wholesale basis but one shot in a stress situation does not merit the overreaction of the LEOs.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 1 month ago
            She would have been better off, then, shooting at a shrub or some other object that would stop the bullet without ricocheting.

            The class I took year ago said you should say, "Get away. I have called the police." If you say I'll call the police, they may try to stop you, so lie and say you already did. If they come at you after this point, you shoot for the center of the body mass.
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  • Posted by MattFranke 12 years, 1 month ago
    But, but, I thought Joey Biden said that's what women should do, fire that double barrel shotgun in the air. lol
    All joking aside, a free falling bullet has killed a couple people that I know of. I would never recommend shooting into the air. Never. If you are going to fire a gun in defense, you should have a target, know your background, and use judicious marksmanship, to stop the threat. Simple.
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years, 1 month ago
    Posted by $ CircuitGuy 58 minutes ago
    Does anyone here know how dangerous a bullet fired straight up is? I imagine it hurting like the dickens if it landed on your head but not doing any real damage.

    Posted by LionelHutz 30 minutes ago
    I believe bullets fired STRAIGHT UP aren't going to be very dangerous because they should erratically tumble on the way down. However ... I'm not sure what the tolerances on this are.

    Posted by $ johnrobert2 51 minutes ago
    A bullet fired straight up can kill if it strikes someone on its return.
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    The physics is quite simple. Conservation of energy says that whatever vertical velocity an object has going up is equal in magnitude and opposite in direction to the velocity on the way down. With a .38 Special, depending on the mass (weight) of the bullet, that is between 200 and 300 meters per second, good fraction of the speed of sound (343.2 m/s). While a human being falling face down will reach a terminal velocity of about 125 miles per hour (54 m/s), a bullet will not be slowed appreciably.

    As noted, people have been killed by bullets fired into the air by other people in celebration of New Year's Eve and Mardi Gras.

    [Edit: I stand corrected. See below]
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years, 1 month ago
      "While a human being falling face down will reach a terminal velocity of about 125 miles per hour (54 m/s), a bullet will not be slowed appreciably."
      I suspect the bullet would be slowed appreciable by air resistance, making the muzzle speed irrelevant. I suspect the terminal velocity is high enough, though, that it could cause real injury.

      I suppose she should have threatened to fire or fired into a shrub.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years, 1 month ago
        Following up, I found several tests, including .30 caliber rounds by the US Army; and while not fun, nothing points to lethal outcome from a bullet in free fall. Resistance matters.

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