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Yale Professor Embarrassed To Discover Tea Party Members Scientifically More Literate

Posted by khalling 12 years ago to Culture
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"But then again, I don't know a single person who identifies with the Tea Party. All my impressions come from watching cable tv -- & I don't watch Fox News very often -- and reading the "paper" (New York Times daily, plus a variety of politics-focused internet sites like Huffington Post & Politico)."

He would have known if he'd visited this site-
SOURCE URL: http://cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/matt-vespa/yale-professor-embarrassed-discover-tea-party-members-are-scientifically


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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
    Actually, I was surprised also. Furthermore, if you read his original statements on his own blog, you will find that Conservatives (in general) score below Liberals (in general). Tea Party people are often intellectual activists: they care about the issues. So, this might also separate far left Greens and actual Marxists from the liberal mainstream, but no one has tested that, apparently.

    I note that in accordance with the canon of science, he admitted that the results were not what he expected.

    Finally, two aspects must be brought out. First, if the Ivy Leaguers are a bunch of slack-brained communists and post modernists, why would we care what any one of them said. Second, if you applaud the work, then the assumption of intellectual bankruptcy in the Ivies must then be questioned.
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    • Posted by 12 years ago
      I agree with intellectual bankruptcy. If you take a polarizing issue such as environmentalism or religion you have to take into account the shared variable of belief. AS long as the "science" speaks to the belief, the belief is re-enforced for those individuals who are scientifically "more literate."
      I used to to scratch my head over statistics showing the more left leaning the more scientifically literate. The conclusion I come to is the IB you talk about-this idea of science and engineering as "plug and chug." That's the way we teach math in schools after all. Don't learn to think for yourself. Plenty of scientists can do their job everyday, no more philosophically self-aware than someone who sits in front of the TV all day. As well, one tends to support policies that elevates their industry, whatever that may be.
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      • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
        Having had three undergraduate semesters in Civil Engineering, I must disagree. "Plug and chug" is held in low regard. Professors and the better students know that if you UNDERSTAND THE PROBLEM and can think for yourself, you do less work than "plug and chug" methods.

        Many problems - from statics (why a bridge holds) and dynamics (forces on turbines) to fluid mechanics and thermodynamics are written in such a way that the student who falls back on "plug and chug" does more work than the one who understands the problem.

        Thinking for yourself means finding an elegant solution. It does not mean launching a libertarian tirade against the Keynesian assumptions of Engineering Finance and Economics -- though that kind of understanding about the material consequences of inflation might help the actual
        practitioner.

        Most of engineering is applied 19th century physics. Even electrical engineering - which does apply field theory - and even electronics - which does apply quantum mechanics - are direct applications of objective science. In that, the undergraduate studies must of necessity reward intelligence and devalue "plug and chug."

        I had a couple of criminology classes with a guy whose sister could not find a job in aeronautical engineering. "What?? Why not??" I asked. He replied "C-plus average."

        Plug and chug just does not cut the mustard in engineering.
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        • Posted by Wonky 12 years ago
          I agree that intelligence is rewarded to a point, but I tend to disagree with the last. In my experience, algebra through calculus, up to and including differential equations, were taught in such a way as to promote a real understanding of the subjects, and were, in fact, much easier to grasp with a real understanding in place. This all ended with boundary value problems, where you were lucky to even have a professor that truly understood the subject and was capable of teaching it to more than a handful of the handful of students who came out of differential equations with something more than plug and chug ability. I witnessed a similar line in physics somewhere in the middle of thermodynamics. Correct answers to 5 of 10 problems earned A's in higher level courses- very few, if any, students left these courses with a true understanding of the problems.

          Materials (vital to civil engineering) was an interesting intersection of chemistry, physics, and mathematics. A practicing civil engineer need not know much about bonding angles and alloy composition when the problem before him is simply a question of compressive or tensile forces. He can follow traditional construction standards, or consult a database of materials by desired property to choose appropriate materials.

          Far too many of my fellow students in Materials earned passing grades without any real comprehension of the subject. It would be frightening to contemplate how many are now practicing civil, mechanical, and even aerospace engineers, if not for the reality that, in industry, they mostly take a free ride on the backs of the true geniuses that came before them.

          It doesn't surprise me at all that Tea Party-goers would demonstrate higher scientific comprehension. Having read Andrew Breitbart's description of Tea Parties from the inside (in Righteous Indignation), they sound like the only kind of party worth going to. They seem to be a sanctuary from the sort of irrational and unsubstantiated criticisms that cause great thinkers to abstain from vocalizing their opinions in polite PC company. A safe haven for earnest rational debate and discussion without the intrusion of the smoke and mirrors of charismatic liberals who shamelessly excel at the art of subtle subversion of credibility by implying that one might be a touch racist or a tad bit sexist or mildly homophobic or unconsciously Islamaphobic.
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        • Posted by 12 years ago
          the reality is, many engineers try not to learn more than they have to, to get past the tests. more so once you are in a job. we have all has seen Phds who have learned one thing really well-the only thing they will work on and provide no new insights past their field of expertise or even in their area of expertise. Their willingness to apply science and reason outside of their area of expertise is lower.
          In fairness, employers encourage that attitude.
          There are plenty of engineers who are not working with 19th century physics but of course plenty who do. paths of least resistance
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          • Posted by BambiB 12 years ago
            19th century physics is adequate for better than 90% of everything most engineers do. Relativity, the second law of Thermodynamics and such were creations of the early 20th century - but how many engineers need to make use of Einstein theories, time dilation, electron tunneling, quarks, masers and anti-matter?
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years ago
            I agree with this, although you could put it positively by saying engineers maximize knowledge efficiency. Efficiency = value of problem solved / amt of complicated knowledge required. They want to increase that ratio by generating more value or by generating the same value with less complex knowledge.
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
            Oh, come on!
            "... the reality is, many engineers try not to learn more than they have to..."
            Do you have a statistically valid poll or are you just pontificating?

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            • Posted by 12 years ago
              do you have a statistically valid poll to say otherwise? my husband is an engineer who has worked with hundreds of engineers over the years.
              My husband would also say that he has worked with lots of engineers who are some of the most creative people we have ever met and many of whom are brilliant.
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              • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years ago
                How many husbands do you have, for crying out loud? Your last husband was a patent attorney; next you're going to tell me you're married to Leonardo Da Vinci...
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                • Posted by 12 years ago
                  all patent attorneys are also engineers or have BS degreees. Many have advanced engineering degrees. You have to be able to understand science, math and engineering in order to study inventions. My husband is a EE, Masters in Physics. He also has many graduate hours in mathematics but did not complete the masters. He worked as an engineer for several years and then went to law school. He couldn't draw or paint to save his life.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years ago
                    In pre-school every week during art time I would paint a large X. After several weeks my parents told me I must paint something besides an X. The following week I painted a huge O. When they asked me why I did this I said the only instruction was to paint something that uses the whole page. I have only the vaguest memories of this.

                    I went to a high school focused on liberal arts. I was disappointed there wasn't an engineering-focused high school. I never thought I would use writing. Now I sometimes earn more per hour writing than engineering.

                    I wanted to study physics, but I was afraid it wouldn't be as useful. It was my first choice if earning money didn't matter. EE was my second choice, so I got BS and MS in EE.
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                    • Posted by 12 years ago
                      his real interest was optics and EM. and he was tired of control system kinds of things. he would have liked communication theory stuff and coding, since that is what he ended up doing mostly. maybe it's because I grew up in a rural area, but I am unfamiliar with high schools in the US focusing on liberal arts vs sciences. did you go to private school? my high school was even that way. and I was lucky to have some great teachers. I especially loved my calculus class.
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years ago
                        Optics has a major boom in the last 90s, but the bust was worse than the bust in everything else.

                        My masters focused on communication theory. A lot is happening in that area b/c there's an explosion of mobile wireless.

                        I went to the IB, which was a great program: http://www.ibo.org/diploma/.

                        Then I went to a state college, where I coasted for two years and developed lazy habits.

                        It led me to think one of the biggest problems in education is quantifying it. All high schools are no the same, so there should be some way of quantifying where you are so you get into the right place at the next step.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years ago
        MM had the same thought I had. If you compare any activist group centered around an ideology, you may find the group is better at science than the general population.

        You have a powerful point about maybe being good at plugging and chugging could be correlate with ideology. My guess is people who like rote learning would be drawn to the authoritarian elements in either left or right ideology.

        I find a disproportional number of engineers lean libertarian. I suspect the libertarian streak comes from engineers being used to being outsiders. Tthose of us who have worked in large corporations see a lot of chest thumping, histrionics, and general political baloney. I have the seen engineers become jaded and basically make the chest thumping managers _beg_ the engineer to make something work b/c the engineer is angry someone less intelligent is running things. Engineers look at politicians, see Dilbert's pointy-haired boss, and think, "you guys are fighting over the who gets to be the coolest kid in the world, while we're doing the actual work that makes things run."
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        • Posted by 12 years ago
          one reason the managers are likely to be less intelligent than the engineers is that our accounting systems show no revenue associated with inventing. It is considered an expense. There is nothing on the balance sheet showing it as an asset-just expense. Thus, our main tool in understanding what's going on in our business, shows engineers inventing providing no value.
          hmm-on the outsider thing. I always thought of it as exceptional. I only dated engineers in college. lol
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          • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
            Cogent point! Thanks.

            I saw the same effects in other "operating" departments, especially shipping and receiving. I figure that the loading dock should be considered buyers and sellers, actual entities, not a mere cost to be limited.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 12 years ago
            Engineers similarly don't see the value created in bringing things together, bringing together a team, leading them in a way that makes it feel fun an "on the right track", finding investors and explaining the value to them, finding customers and showing them the value. Engineers subconsciously buy the myth that if you build a better mousetrap the world will beat a path to your door.
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            • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
              Well, yeah, they have the Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged Howard Roark assumption that being right ought to be enough.

              For most of humanity, it is not.

              Thus, the market rewards those who cater to the lowest common denominator.

              An open and unregulated market will reward others, also.

              But no one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the average person.
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  • Posted by richrobinson 12 years ago
    Why do these studies if you aren't going to change your mind. Even though he now admits TEA party members are smarter than he thought he still discounts everything they stand for. He should do a follow up on his own intelligence.
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    • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 12 years ago
      They are not smarter; they only score higher on general scientific knowledge. And, as above, Liberals score higher than Conservatives. More to the point NO ONE SCORES WELL. We are talking of ranges like 20% with deltas of a few points either way.

      “A slightly higher proportion of American adults qualify as scientifically literate than European or Japanese adults, but the truth is that no major industrial nation in the world today has a sufficient number of scientifically literate adults,” he said. “We should take no pride in a finding that 70 percent of Americans cannot read and understand the science section of the New York Times.”
      Approximately 28 percent of American adults currently qualify as scientifically literate, an increase from around 10 percent in the late 1980s and early 1990s, according to Miller's research."
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...

      Just to note, the differences in scores (28% here and 20% from Kahan) are because of different test standards. Kahan used an NSF metric, I believe.
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  • Posted by mersparks 12 years ago
    I am having a problem with the media thinking the TEA party has a lot of issues like abortion and gun control, the TEA party is a one issue party. It says it in its name. Taxed Enough Already that is it, end of subject, one issue. Therefore anyone that does not think this way is missing a few screws. Those of us that identify with the TEA party are obviously in the know, others not so much.
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    • Posted by 12 years ago
      I am right with you mer. it's like the tea party is a super villain ready to blow up the subway system or rob banks or any number of terrorist activities usually attributed to the radical left.
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  • Posted by Spinkane 12 years ago
    I suspect a good scientist would run his experiment without preconceived ideas and let the data answer the question. I did statistical analysis on failures in a product we manufacture. As the technician who tested these units I believed the white ones failed more than the yellow ones; I looked for that result. They had the same failure rate, I was wrong. True to myself I had to be careful in the future about being biased. I reported the results but couldn’t help but wonder if the yellow ones actually failed more because I was focused on the white ones? Since this man had a preconceived idea Tea Partiers are possibly more scientifically literate than his results. The most significant point to me was he didn’t open his mind as a result, but would continue watching MSLSD.
    “"Of course, I still subscribe to my various political and moral assessments--all very negative-- of what I understand the "Tea Party movement" to stand for.”
    What’s with the of course? How about reconsider your position and do some more experiments?
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  • Posted by fosterj717 12 years ago
    It did not come as a surprise to me because the TP folks that I know, all are very informed on the topics of interest. I found to a much hire degree than their more liberal, highly educated, Progressive counterparts of which my family has many.

    It is generally arrogance by the "educated" brie eating, chardonay swilling, elitists that don't get this fact. In any argument between TP and these folks usually end up with the Progressives resorting to foul language and name calling because their arguments are so shallow and of little substance.

    Take away the 30 second soundbite and these folks (including the left-wing college professors) are woefully under-educated, and it shows!
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  • Posted by redoty09 12 years ago
    Democrats are the dumbest of all. Voting for the worthless Obama twice, THAT is stupid. Plus gong around chanting, Obama……Obama….Obama he is the one, like a bunch of brain washed morons that they are!
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  • Posted by Herb7734 12 years ago
    It has been my experience that Tea Party people run the gamut culturally and intellectually. The biggest difference that I can see is that by and large they are more respectful of other people and groups and as a result are less confrontational in getting their points across. In my opinion, any resort to the use of force, whether it is physical or verbal (except for self-defense) negates any assertion of the user of such coercion.
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    • Posted by redoty09 12 years ago
      I have no problem being confrontational with a democrat these days, I am sick and tired of listening to them shoot off their mouths that are controlled by their brain washed ignorant minds!
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  • Posted by Stormi 12 years ago
    I knew there was a disconnect when they pushed Obama, apx. IQ 117, as a genius. Tea Party participants are looking at various sources, and sharing information with others, as intelligent people do. My daughter and I have IQs in the top 2% of the country, so we knew their study was bogus.One thing about liberals, they love "talking points", and you just cannot get them beyond those to real thinking. Does this guy even realize Al Gore has no real science education?
    Did he actually read Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" to see what Obama was about - or Hillary's 92-page thesis glorifying Alinsky? Does he know about UN Agenda 21, and the pseudo-science in it which will be used to end property rights in the US - with Obama behind it. Get out of the Ivory Tower bud, and check out some facts, that is what Tea Party participants are doing.
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