1114 People Killed By Police in 2014

Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago to Culture
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1. Up 30% from 2013 even though violent crime is at record lows
2. 58 officers were killed by violent assault
, roughly 50% of all officer deaths in 2014.
SOURCE URL: http://reason.com/blog/2014/12/09/more-than-1000-people-have-been-killed-b


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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 10 years, 9 months ago
    What is the percentage of police that are doing the killing? Has this changed? Do we have more rogue cops or fewer doing more killing? Is it more prevalent and widespread among the force? Though violent crimes are down, are assaults against police up or down? Are more people resisting arrest? Are stupid laws like charging people for selling single cigarettes on the rise and forcing the police to engage more? Since these statistics are not collected uniformly and the time-span is short what can be definitively derived from them? " there is no reliable national database for keeping track of the number of people killed by police each year. The FBI tracks homicides by law enforcement officers, but participation is voluntary, and many agencies don’t participate."

    Admittedly, it does not look good... The police may need to police their own better, but I think the government is creating tension and contributing. they give the orders, authorize military tactics, provide military style equipment, make the laws and are creating a police state.

    Stay safe everyone.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
    Maybe the lower crime rate is related to having less murderers on the street, in jail or dead, thanks to cops... ?
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    • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
      perhaps. but does it come at a terrible cost? are police collection arms for the government? do they see themselves as omnipotent? what's going to happen when four of them bang on your door screaming POLICE! Are you going to trust their judgement? would you feel safe?
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
        Oh fuck no. I don't trust them totally... and i don't depend on them to protect me. I think some are power mongers, but not all of them. I don't trust a blanket number to accurately show the truth. Anti gun groups are notorious for throwing numbers around to make their case but they lump all sorts of situations into their number bag that shouldn't be there. That was my point. I'm no cheerleader for cops, but if their life is being threatened by an aggressor then they have a right to defend it. As does anyone. Also.. who's the one behind this stat? Sharpton?
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    • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 9 months ago
      Probably true, but I'm sure it also reflects the fact that the system doesn't call it a "crime" when cops beat up, rob, rape, or murder people just because they can get away with it -- and if you don't think this happens very often, you and I are not living on the same planet.

      Of course, even a lot of cop activity that is actually authorized by law (or at least tolerated by management) is just as evil as the unauthorized actions if not more so. All drug enforcement, for instance, belongs in this category, and so does enforcement of anything else in the very broad category of victimless crimes (see Ringer's "Restoring the American Dream" if you can't come up with the list yourself).

      We may be at greater risk now, with plenty of cops around, than we would be without any. And if that's so, then the whole argument against anarchy collapses.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
    I need more than numbers. For example, how many were suicide by cop, or hostage situations, or being an imminent threat to the life of another (including a cop). Also, I would like the number of how many lives they saved. And how many cops have been killed in the line of duty.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
      how many lives saved? we always use this as an argument-to the point of ignoring what's going on in our cities all around us with police over-kill(pun meant). .006% killed by fire in the line of duty- a fair comparison would be what is the probability of dying for men? let's look at many other professions...it's time to quit glorifying the police and look at their jobs not as "service" but as a career.
      well funny thing, that...the government does not keep statistics on this....citizens have to cobble together this information. In the meantime, they keep clear statistics on police deaths and why. There are over 1M police officers in the US-this does not include, FBI,CIA, HHS, TSA and military. 58 deaths last year...as far as safety statistics goes for a career....
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
        How many "careers" have the responsibility and requirement of protecting the lives of others. How many require you to engage with the most dangerous, violent elements among us? I don't think they are above the law, don't get me wrong, but their job is riskier than most. Oil riggers, fisherman, roofers, steel workers, miners, and such too, but dealing with nut jobs for a living is its own job of danger and if they can stop a threat, they should.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
          I think those who have to deal with the most violent element among us, should be highly compensated for their skill and danger. That population is concentrated. Police deal with the general populace. Yes they come into contact with violent criminals. The problem is they are being trained to treat all of us as though we aer potential violent criminals. that is not the police officer of my childhood. why is that?
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
            The same reason that NOTHING is the same as our childhood. Personally I blame it all on the gov enabling and rewarding bad behavior by throwing freebies at every possible difficulty one my might have in their life, whether it's self made or not, all in the name of "helping those less fortunate". It breeds entitled, angry, hostile, dependent attitudes, that blame everything and everybody except themselves... which has born this economic inequality movement, occupy wall street garbage. Throw in some liberal indoctrination in public ed (sprinkled with some white guilt and revisionist history and you've created a movement.) They have riots and crap on cop cars in the park as they trash the place and THEY GET A WAY WITH IT. And all of that behavior boils down to a lack of a rational philosophy based in self responsibility. And here we are. The cops become jaded...which is no excuse to ignore the Constitution of course, but heck, I'm practically a hermit and I hate most people I encounter. (Including some "public servants" I've had to interact with on occasion.) And why are in here slapping me around... how's that son of yours??
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
            They should be compensated at the rate where the proper number of agents with reasonable levels of skills are employed. No more, and no less.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago
        "it's time to quit glorifying the police and look at their jobs not as "service" but as a career. "

        I wish we could glorify the officers but hold them to strict standards. In all areas of the law, citizens may be forgiven for minor infractions, going "five over" the limit of whatever law we're talking about, but not on-duty police officers.

        What I just said, though, is a moot point because we have a more serious problem with policing, and a lot of that is tied to general acceptance of intrusive gov't.
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        • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 9 months ago
          The problem is that there aren't any angels to police us. We have to make do with humans, and that means they have to be held accountable like everyone else.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 10 years, 9 months ago
        I brought that up because, again, anti gun people love to quote numbers about how many guns (not gun owners...guns, as if they grew legs and a trigger finger) have killed people, without mentioning the reason. Self defense? Robbery? Home invasion? It's always implied that the death wasn't justified or was an accident. And the other thing that's never factored in is how many LIVES HAVE BEEN SAVED, or crimes stopped, by someone who carries. Often once a criminal realizes their intended victim is armed they flee. So, I think this is a huge part of the picture when considering statistics in this arena. Why would you want to ignore the positive?
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 9 months ago
    I recently read an article (or posted comment on an article) that Congress directed the DOJ to collect this data as early as 1994, yet the DOJ has only requested the data and it's only voluntary on the part of some 17,000 police agencies across the nation.

    Another comment noted two university researchers that say that the numbers being published to date are from 50% to 100% shy of actual numbers. It just looks like there is no way to come up with the actual numbers.

    But whether it's 1 or 10,000, it's too many unless it's a shootout situation, and way too many of those reported are not. I personally do not wish to support a police state that kills it's citizens. I want suspects brought to a judge and a trial of their peers. I don't want Wild Bill Hickok and Wyatt Earp out there 'resolving' these issues for us--that's not the jobs they are hired for.

    I prefer the cop to be dressed in a clown outfit (with the floppy shoes and big nose) riding in a clown car and the only weapon he has is a squirt daisy pinned to his clown tie.
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  • Posted by IndianaGary 10 years, 9 months ago
    Whoa... Before condemning all "death by cop" scenarios, lets take a deep breath and analyze the situation a bit.

    I looked at the latest 10 deaths (as of 12/24/14) and other than what appeared to be a murder/suicide of a cop and his wife (and even that could have been a double-murder as the report is not definitive), ALL of the deaths were clearly JUSTIFIED. Hell, you point a gun at a cop and expect what? We need to add some rationality to the conversation. Someone should take on the job of analyzing ALL of these deaths and provide CONTEXT before we simply brand 'death by cop' an epidemic; simple statistics without context is more than useless, it's dangerous. What the hell do we pay them for but to protect us (and themselves) from the nuts and evil in our society? This clearly puts a target on their back. They have a very difficult job and should be held to a very high standard but convicting all cops because of statistics is patently unjustified.

    Personally, I think that our society has become more dangerous than when I was young because of the altruistic pap taught in our schools and churches, and spread via mass media. Technology has also made the planet smaller in the sense that bad people can move about more quickly and inflict more damage. It's no wonder cops are paranoid.
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    • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 9 months ago
      It may not be more dangerous now but I suspect it will be soon at the rate we are going.

      The only thing I can argue slightly is the job of the police. I believe their job is to investigate criminal activity, not to protect us. True, if they take a criminal off the street it protects people from a future crime but a crime has to be committed before they can stop them. So in reality they are hired to clean up the mess. They carry a weapon to protect themselves not others.

      Respectfully
      Ed
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      • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 9 months ago
        Indeed! It brings to mind the entire nonsensical issue of mis-using the words, leaders, protection, heroes, etc. for those that work for the government.
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        • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 9 months ago
          I agree wholeheartedly! IMHO the only place the term hero should ever be used is for the military person who lost life or limb during a military campaign. I could extend that to a civilian and police officer/firefighter to a very limited degree with the same criteria.
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          • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 9 months ago
            Depends how they lose that life/limb and what they were doing and supporting to incur such a loss. A cop busting into a home as part of a SWAT team that gets shot down by the homeowner is not a hero in any form, he's a brazen bully that got what he deserved. A firefighter that rescues a kitten from a tree is not a hero. No one just doing the job they are hired for is a hero. No one supporting and working for a corrupt, rights abusing, or force using government can ever be a hero. A man that accepts principles of others calling themselves his leaders or betters and dies supporting such is not a hero.

            The man that bases his principles on life and every man's rights to that life and all that goes with that life, lived without initiative force in the face of all opposition to that ideal, that man is a hero.
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            • Posted by edweaver 10 years, 9 months ago
              That is exactly what I was thinking. I knew someone would put it into words. There are a few other exceptions but very limited. The term is way overused. :)
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  • Posted by dansail 10 years, 9 months ago
    The website does not seem to present anything more than simple facts. Each incident is a different event with its own set of circumstances. Apparently, the information provided is not explained by the site owner, but it could point out all sorts of things going on.
    1) The killings are the result of those who feel they can behave violently and continue what they're doing, whether the police are around or not. Ultimately, they're going to encounter superior firepower when the police radio for backup.
    2) The increase of the number may be due to the fact that there are increased numbers of people who disregard the law and feel violence is justifiable.
    3) Perhaps the police are reacting with greater prejudice out of concern for their own lives. They do have a very difficult job that persistently puts them in harm's way.
    Most likely it is a combination of the above and eventually cooler heads will prevail. Even Ayn Rand felt that lawlessness will never benefit a country and that originating force exerted by anyone or any organization should be put down by authority.
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  • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
    Let's add some more interesting information.
    FBI Statistics 2013:
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri...
    11,302,102 Arrests in 2013.
    That is a percentage of .0098% of arrests translate to a death by officer assuming that these deaths occur while an officer is trying to arrest someone.
    Now if you decide to add ALL times where police are responding to something then that percentage is even lower.
    Seems to me they have a really good record there.

    Now let us look at another profession and make a comparison:

    The medical profession.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/inpatien...
    The CDC estimates approximately 51.4 million procedures performed per year in the USA.
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...
    The Scientific American estimates that 210,000 people die every year during and/or from surgery and specifically medical mistakes.
    That is .408% chance you will die from a mistake by a medical professional with numerous years of higher education.
    You are FAR, FAR more likely to die at the hands an incompetent doctor, or one that made an "oopsie" than a cop anytime of the day or year. Then lets add, for the most part YOU MUST BE DOING SOMETHING WRONG or at least wonky to be "engaged by a cop."
    Time to STOP picking on cops and let them do their jobs.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 10 years, 9 months ago
      If that were true, there would be no problem.

      Most people who are "engaged by a cop" haven't done a darn thing wrong. Nor had they, even in the past when (most) cops gave (white) people the benefit of the doubt. But the state now bans so many behaviors (and even situations) that aren't wrong at all, that no one is safe from cops.
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  • Posted by Abaco 10 years, 9 months ago
    Stats or no...there is one facet that continues to bother me. There have been several cases over the past few years (that happened to make the news) where murder charges should have been applied and cops should have gone to jail, but they were acquitted or never charged. My personal favorite is the case of Kelly Thomas, Fullerton, CA. That was an incredible gang-style attack on a small, handcuffed guy. They caved his face in and crushed his windpipe as he screamed for his dad. Acquitted. In my town the cops shot a guy in the head as he sat cuffed in the back of a squad car. I have a problem with that. It's that cops can get away with such crimes that bothers me. As a society we need to hold these guys accountable. We aren't doing that. Meanwhile, we need to support the good cops. We aren't doing that.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years, 9 months ago
    To me, it isn't the total number, it is the circumstances of each death that matters. That and that alone is what we should be drawing trends from.

    The reason I say that is because there was a huge uproar in my city when a teenager got pulled over for speeding and ended up dead. The kid had initially stopped, but refused to cooperate with the officer and ended up attempting to drive off with the officer at his window. He dragged the officer more than 30 feet until the officer shot him and killed him instantly.

    This story was all over the local news for months, but since both the teen and the cop were white, we were spared from hosting Al Sharpton. We had peaceful protests and an investigation, but it all happened peacefully and thankfully ended without any more blood shed.

    My point is that we need to establish how many of these deaths were the product of resisting arrest, etc., and how many were a result of overly aggressive police. Without determining causation and tracking that, we are left with pure speculation - hardly a scientific pursuit.
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    • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
      If you have ever taken any "Quality control" classes courses or training you would recognize that with a margin of error of .0098%, you are close to reaching that Six Sigma perfection with is 99.999% flawless.

      How about letting the courst do their jobs and ferret out the mistakes, and recognize that we need to be focusing time effort and enrgy on REAL problems where we can get a big BANG for the buck in fixing problems. Like drunk teenagers who are responsible for far more deaths, injuries and cost to our society than the miniscule number of potentially racist cops,.

      Even with flaws in Law enforcement you are still so close to that 99.999% Six Sigma perfect, that indicates you do NOT NEED TO FIX something that is NOT BROKEN.
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
        Oh, 0.0098 is still quite a ways from 6 sigma level (which would be 0.0000000987%, not taking into account that fictitious 1.5 sigma shift).
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        • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
          1114/11,302102 = 0.000098. When you convert that to a % you multiply by 100, giving you 0.0098%. So not as far off as you indicated.
          Next on a Sig Sigma chart, based on parts per million, i.e. number of arrests vs. deaths the Chart working from 1 Sigma to 6 sigma looks EXACTLY like this.
          Sigma Millions DPMO Total Flaws /(Deaths)
          6 Sigma 11.302102 3.4 38.43
          5 Sigma 11.302102 233 2,633.39
          4 Sigma 11.302102 6,210 70,186.05
          3 Sigma 11.302102 66,807 755,059.53
          2 Sigma 11.302102 308,537 3,487,116.64
          1 Sigma 11.302102 690,000 7,798,450.38

          This places death by Cop, not necessarily errors at between 5 and 6 Sigma. Companies would have wet dreams if they achieved that. Even IF your only looking at a noticeable statistical sampling across this country, 400 out of 17,000,
          Again I will reiterate Cops to an OUTSATANDING job and efforts need to be placed elsewhere in "fixing" the issue.
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          • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
            The 0.0000000987% is six sigma percent defects. The numbers that you show include a 1.5 sigma shift which is bogus (in my humble opinion, and 20 yrs of experience).
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            • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
              Sig Sigma subltties aside, the POINT is the SAME!!!.

              VERY, VERY, VERY few deaths by cop vs., the number of times cops are engaged for "something."

              Sub-point being the cops do not need "fixed", retrained. What needs fixed is the part of our culture that exalts bad behavior, and parents who leave their bastard monster brats to do whatever they want all their life. THAT is what needs fixed. And your "nit picking about millionths is ludicrous at best when the main point does not change at all.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
    Any unnatural death should be viewed with concern, particularly when it happens at the hands of those entrusted with the societal use of force. However, a quick perusal of just a sampling of the deaths tallied here shows that there are deaths reported where the dead individual was threatening the police with deadly force. In such a situation, it is an acceptable response to return the use of deadly force. I think for a rational discussion, one would first have to categorize these deaths as rational or irrational use of deadly force. Otherwise, we're just railing without logic.
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  • Posted by iroseland 10 years, 9 months ago
    with the total number of firearms deaths in the us around 11k that means that the police account for nearly 10%

    granted, this makes sense as in Seattle they accounted for like 22.5 % of people shot and killed.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 9 months ago
      i, can you help clarify this for me? police commit 10%, represent 10% of the deaths?
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      • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
        That would assume that all police involved deaths are firearms related. Clearly that isn't the case (for instance, one of the sampled reports that I viewed was a police car that t-boned some elderly driver who died - no firearm involved).
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  • Posted by H6163741 10 years, 9 months ago
    Hmm... I wonder how many of those were committing some sort of violent crime, or were a danger to the officer's life when they were killed?
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  • Posted by peterchunt 10 years, 9 months ago
    While useful, I would want the figures verified before trusting. They pale in comparison to the deaths between civilians particularly black on black killings.
    One thing is clear from the recent deaths; waiving a gun, committing a crime or resisting by not obeying an officers instructions, can cause serious bodily injury or death. The police don’t know who you are and can only assume the worst so as to protect their lives. You have nothing to fear if you don’t commit a crime, waive a weapon in front of the police, or disobey them.
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    • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
      There ya go now THERE is an ideal warning that needs stamped on butt and barrel of every gun..

      WARNING, display of, pointing of, or use of this firearm in the direction of people or police can be harmful and/or fatal to your health.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 10 years, 9 months ago
    In November I presented a lecture on this subject. The head-scratching part is of almost 17,000 police agencies, a bit less than 400 report. And their number of killings is what has been given as the total police killings. If you take the 400 and then compensate for the 17,000, using the average of the 400 reporting agencies and applying that to the 17,000 agencies who do not report, one quickly realizes the actual number is vastly higher than reported. That, by itself, means nothing. The reality could easily be that the killings are justified. I was the victim of an armed robbery with a gun pressed against my head, and would have no compunction about killing the assailant in the course of the robbery. I had no weapons and the criminals caught me by surprise. The police, faced with a similar threat should shoot.
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    • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
      Whoa, whoa, whoa. Many of those reporting are the larger entities, who have the majority of police involved killings. Most police agencies are relatively small - town, village, small city police and county sheriffs. Most of which have no deaths, so they feel no reason to report a zero. We cannot extrapolate the avg from where those deaths occur onto the agencies where they do not occur.
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    • Posted by $ root1657 10 years, 9 months ago
      Statistically and logically flawed in every way. Robbie is right, and there can be no extrapolation here. If anything I would assume that all non-reporting agencies had zero, and thus were too busy reporting things that DID happen to take time reporting things that DIDNT happen.
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      • Posted by Esceptico 10 years, 9 months ago
        Check your premises. As an ex-cop and a prosecutor in two states, I can tell you many things that do happen are not reported or not reported accurately. Remember, as LeFavre pointed out, government starts out protecting the many from the few and ends up protecting itself from everyone. Nonetheless, I said I am sure the majority of killings by police are probably justified, whatever the number may be. However, I think all the killings should be reported---especially in this age of the militarization of the police. Police enjoy arresting people for anything. The NYPD example of killing the guy selling cigarettes is only one sample. Thank science for videos or that one would have been swept under the rug.
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 10 years, 9 months ago
          They didn't "kill the guy." They used a legal, although prohibited by dept policy, hold to subdue the individual. While he claimed not to be able to breathe, he voiced that sentiment 11 times, so clearly was breathing. He was alive once he was subdued and handcuffs were put on him. He only expired once he was being transported, and then from a heart failure not from asphyxiation. The altercation contributed to the heart event, but it was certainly not the only contributor. Excessive weight, high blood pressure, and other physical aspects were also - and probably more - contributors to the heart event.
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        • Posted by woodlema 10 years, 9 months ago
          Well lets see. I am quite sure that ANY death, or injury where someone had to be treated by a medical professional due to an action proper or not, WAS reported. The only thing that may have been unreported was the total number of actual times the police were dispatched. Notice the FBI report were "reported" arrests. so yes you can make an extrapolation and an assumption.
          1) Just based on the number of REPORTED arrests, and the number of people killed you reach .0098%.
          2) KNOWING that there are most likely FAR MORE unreported dispatches of police the % chance you will be killed most certainly goes down even further.

          I am not sure what about reasonable statistics people do not understand, so my explanation and reasoning was not flawed at all. And based on ONLY what was reported, and understanding that all deaths most likely were reported, .0098% is almost 99.999% perfect witch is the holy grail of six sigma quality control.

          Also if your using samples, 400 out of 17000, and also understanding that those that DO report are not generally the small town of 30,000. your national percentage would still be roughly the same. INSIGNIFICANT number of deaths by cops. Then you can break those down of the deaths that the VAST, VAST, majority someone WAS doing something bad.

          So as an ex-cop, here is my question to you , how many "innocent" people ARE in jail? We know some are, but how many really are?
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          • Posted by Esceptico 10 years, 9 months ago
            I detect a hostile tone in the thread, perhaps it is just me, and in any event I simply point it out and move on. First, the reported deaths. The report we are talking about is to the FBI, who is keeping the statistics, not reporting in general. Yes all deaths are reported to somebody, but not to the FBI. Second, there is an old saying in the prosecution world: Any prosecutor can convict the guilty, but it takes an extraordinary prosecutor to convict the innocent. Most defendants plead guilty due to “sandbagging” — which is the prosecutorial practice of laying on as many different counts as possible with the hope the high number will influence the defendant to plead guilty rather than face up to life in prison. How may in prison are innocent? I have no idea. There are organizations that work in this area, and if you seriously interested, I suggest contacting them. And keep in mind the majority of those in prison are there due to victimless crime violations, which we Objectivists also consider to be a travesty of justice.
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