and start from scratch? You cannot take an hold a country without ground forces, You don't radiate or completely cripple the infrastructure if you intend to use it once you have boots on the ground.

Agreed..but I would think THEY, whoever they are, would want our fertile land.

The Siege
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0133952/?ref...

In fairness, the Founders had months of forewarning to any invasion. Either spies overseas or ships at sea could rush to the US to report that an armada was coming. Today, and for the last 60 or so years, that lead time has been reduced to a fraction. With contemporary weapons we cannot stand as a nation without a solid degree of trained national defense.

As for would our soldiers attack a State or US citizens, some would without thought (orders), others would under pressure (peer-pressure), and those that didn't would be dealt with after the fact. I am a veteran. Lets just say that my ASVAB was 83 and I knew people, good folks, with 38...that says much, no?

This is why the Founders were against having a standing army.

I can't think of the movie but Bruce Willis played an army general instituting martial law in NYC. I thought he played the part perfectly. Denzel Washington and Annette Bening were also in the movie.

It doesn't have to be a state. You asked if I believe that American soldiers will follow orders to fire on American civilians. Unequivocally yes. I think anyone that believes that a significant majority of them will not is actually living with their heads in the sand and without regard to our own history. Whomever they are being asked to fire on will be spun as extremists or terrorists. And even that won't be necessary once those people begin firing back.

The one place in the US that is actually closest to a totalitarian lifestyle is the US military. It is socialist with housing allowances based in part on need and in part on rank. It is top down and authoritative with members own civil rights curbed. This does not lead to a core group of people who are going to mutiny.

"no direct tax" has never been repealed.

The 16th amendment doesn't give them the authority to DIRECTLY tax... but the States haven't put up a fuss about it.

And the Free State project in my mind is barking up the wrong tree. Go ask your average NH resident if they support doing something like this plan. Then go ask the average Wyoming, Idaho, South Dakota, North Dakota, etc... resident

Yeah if that state comes off like a bunch of lunatic morons, that'll be easy. But the whole point is that long before it comes to that, they're out in public detailing why they're doing what they're doing.

I don't think it would come to that, and if it did, an entire freaking state under attack... I just can't see it coming to that. They're not "rebelling", they're not attacking anyone, there's zero chance the public would stand up for it, and like I said, I think zero chance the majority of the military would attack that State under those circumstances.

Isn't this what the Free State Project is all about? And they are actually doing it, or trying to, in New Hampshire. At least 1-4. Not sure 6 is constitutional.

And then it's anyone's guess as to who fired first. Soldier, civilian, agent provocateur?

http://www.amazon.com/Enemies-Foreign-Do...

There is an interesting set of novels that deals with this. I think the author has it right. The "rebels" will be spun as extremist right wing fanatics and the soldiers will have no problem firing on them. At least most of them. Especially once they start shooting back and a couple of soldiers are killed.

After having graduated from West Point and served in the Army I think these percentages are pretty good. It might be 80/20 or 75/25 but the percentage of soldiers that would just follow orders and fire on US citizens is pretty damn high. It is what they are trained to do. The 82nd Airborne went to Little Rock. Army armored units patrolled the streets of DC during a riot in the 60's. The "rebels" will be portrayed as radical extremist terrorists and the US military will largely act accordingly.

I think your percentages are reversed.

I mean seriously, think about it..

That State is still paying taxes, still recognizing the Constitution, still sending its citizens to serve in the military, etc. And, if you've done your job right and picked a sufficiently proper leadership (governor, representatives, and well-known figures who speak publicly in favor of Federalism, they've already explained, all over the media, that this is exactly how the founding fathers designed this nation to work.

West Point grads had no problem firing on each other in the 1860's.