My pleasure Mamaemma,
I am having a slow day at work today. Anything I can do...
Regards,
O.A.

I read an article by the Brennan Justice Institute regarding voter machines. There does not seem to be any evidence to support fraud, however lots of votes are not getting counted. There have been new Federal Election Commission guidelines put in place since 2012 to address this problem. They found that in one city, New York, for the last election for governor, over 60 thousand votes were thrown out due to "overvoting" this is when the voter chooses more than one candidate per office. They adjusted the machines to let the voter know this, however in these cases, the voter did not understand what "overvoting" meant. Of course the spin is out of these 60K votes, 1/10 were black or Hispanic and they made a case that these kinds of issues tended to affect minorities more than white voters.

Which is (in part) what I just said. It wasn't all tampering with machines; it was jiggering with who/what/where recounts.

And it failed.

Robbie. I think you just agreed with me. ;)

From the time I was a kid in the fifties I heard my parents talking about dead people voting. This has continued to the present day. Given the technology available today where the government can track everyone, their cars via license plate readers, every phone call they make and every site they visit on the Internet, it seems reasonable that they can tell when someone is using a dead persons identity to vote. Also, as we are tracked everywhere, it should be of little consequence to add to that file on us whether or not we are a citizen and eligible to vote. One of the other things that is needed is feedback as to whether our votes were ever counted. To address these issues I present the following draft proposal for your review:


An idea for more accurate and fraud proof (or fraud reduced at a minimum) voting without the need for a national ID card.

First we must agree that only legal of age citizens of the United States can vote in federal elections. Next we must also agree that only legal of age citizens of a state that is having elections can vote in those elections.

That being the case, the following procedure could be put in place:

1. Voter goes to voting place and presents ID proving citizenship
The government recognizes several types of identification such as birth certificates and passports among others.
2. Voter then votes for whoever and whatever, using an electronic voting machine.
3. At the conclusion of voting, the voting machine issues a receipt indicating all votes cast by that voter and adds a randomly generated number to which these votes are linked.
4. The voting machines are connected to a central location using the Internets VPN and high level of encryption. All voting information is sent there via that path.
5. In addition, each voting machine contains a flash drive which is only accessible under lock and key. This drive contains a duplicate of all voting information that was sent via the VPN.
6. When all voting is concluded at all precincts, all flash drives are collected and sent to the central location.
7. Votes from the VPN connection are then compared with votes recorded on the flash drives.
8. Votes are tallied and placed on the Internet along with any errors due to mismatches between the VPN and flash drive data.
9. Error resolutions are updated with details as they are addressed
10. Using the Internet, a voter can then look up their votes on the government run site using the number on their voting receipt. This shows that their vote was counted and what it was counted for.

Though this proposal is likely not bullet proof, it would go a long way toward reducing fraud, IMHO of course.

Yes, as I noted below: In an extremely close election, on a small scale, where one box of ballots "found" in a car trunk can make the difference.

But on a national scale? I ain't buying it.

Yes, in that election, absolutely. Fraud can certainly tip extremely close elections, and in that one it's very likely that this happened.

Why do you think the 2000 Florida case led to Al Gore coming mentally unhinged? No matter how hard they tried, the couldn't bullshit their way into a win.

And there's a counterpart. It's called the Republican party. Many of them are true believers as well. The problem we've been having isn't conspiracies; it's that the Dems play to win, and we don't.

I hear what you are saying and I am not big on conspiracies generally, but in some elections the margin is so small even some small discrepancies could change the results. I am not thoroughly convinced any outcomes have been changed, but we all do remember the hanging chads and the controversy of the 2000 election in Florida.
A close election that uses only electronic voting could be thrown by one person (no conspiracy required) who has ability and opportunity to corrupt the machines code prior to installation or piggybacked on an update. All of us that use computers are painfully aware of the need for malware protection.
As far as the pang of conscience goes: There are those of us with integrity and those without.
An honest person has difficulty accepting the nature of the dishonest.
Who is John Galt?

Welcome to the State of Washington, this is how our elections go. Combine who counts them with the way the machines (in some States) can change your vote if you're not watching carefully, and most election results can be determined before the first vote is counted.

OA, thank you for taking the time to present concrete facts to support what I said! Really- I didn't have the time, and you did great

Here's my problem with conspiracy theories in general, and this one in particular:

Think for a moment about the scale of an operation like this. We're talking about deliberately corrupting thousands, maybe tens of thousands of machines, in thousands of precincts, all over the country. That's staggering in scope; it would take the (secret) involvement of thousands of people.

Would you ("you" in the generic sense, not you personally) have us believe that not one of those people would have a pang of conscience and blow the operation? Or perhaps more to the point, not one of them would see the chance to become an instant celebrity and make millions in appearance fees, book sales and a TV mini-series by blowing the deal wide open?

Not one? Out of thousands?

Yes, a lot of the machines used are pieces of crap. Yes, there is a lot of voter fraud in the major cities - and in some small towns, too. Yes, Voter ID is vitally important to the integrity of the process.

But a nation-wide, nefarious, Soros-funded conspiracy to rig elections? I don't think it passes the smell test.

Sheesh -- I hope you're wrong!
However, recognizing the state of affairs currently in the USA, you just might be right. If you are right, elections are a charade; a not too well orchestrated one at that. Cogitating about it, it really pisses me off when I think about all the trouble I go through in order to learn about the candidate and issues.

I agree there is some fraud. Is it not possible for some fraud to at times overwhelm the total outcome?
Had to look at that razor thingie. I only discovered Ayn Rand and her way of thinking three short years ago.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovat...

You have to understand the philosophy of the left. They believe in BIG gov't, and the biggest is the Pres. That gets many more people energized to vote for a presidential election. They have less interest/energy for congressional (one of many reps), and when you get to state and local elections, they have very little interest. That accounts for the swings shown in the overall vote tallies, the difference in R vs. D percentages, and in the amount of known or suspected voter fraud.

Hello Animal,
I have no way of ascertaining if the problems were of a scale required to alter the results, but... A google search with the Key words "voting machines changing votes" turns up 156,000 results. https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...
Additionally when our AG does nothing regarding the obvious voter intimidation like the black panthers committed... https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=ch...
No doubt this is not the only act of voter intimidation or the kind Holder would be inclined to investigate. One is naturally suspicious of the system coupled with the fact that the contract for the voting machine code is foreign controlled (Scytl...the evidence of Soros' involvement is thin, but shell corporations do exist and who knows... there are ways to hide one's involvement...still rather speculative). Why any part of the American voting process should not be completely in American hands is unfathomable.
http://townhall.com/columnists/michellem...

Respectfully,
O.A.

Or, it could just be that on the larger scale, the election process worked. Apply Occam's Razor.

IF there was someone who is corrupting the count of the votes, it would be possible that the 2012 election results served his purpose in some way.

It was simple; I asked for evidence. And I understand the Stalin quote. I'm asking for some specifics. The implication is that there is some national-scale, systemic corruption in our election process, and I don't think there is; if there was, the GOP wouldn't have run away with the 2012 Congressional elections.

An Objectivist shouldn't be offended when asked for evidence, eh? Should not an Objectivist's decisions and opinions be based on evidence?

I'm not saying there isn't voter fraud. There is, especially in the big (blue) cities. But that's a long, long ways from saying that our election system as a whole is fraudulent and/or ineffective. As witness the 2012 overhaul of Congress.