Atheism

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 11 years, 12 months ago to Philosophy
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Atheism is not a belief “in” anything. It is not proof or even argument that God does not exist. Atheism is a denial of merit to any claims for the existence of God. The standards of proof are the same as those known from science or law: evidence must be consistent, repeatable, explicable, and falsifiable. So far, no religionist has offered any evidence for the existence of “God.”

Several to perhaps many here on Galt’s Gulch Online apparently believe in God and even accept Jesus as their Savior. How many is not clear. Such statements do appear often enough that is hard to dismiss them as a few outliers, or even an insignificant minority. Moreover, while some metaphysical margin might be found for a theological discussion, the leading posters who admit to regularly attending church are not speculating in philosophy.

Some atheists have taken various religionist claims to task. The easiest is that if God is omniscient, then he (she or it) cannot be omnipotent. Other logical fallacies have been exposed. Miracles such as the Shroud of Turin have been exposed as fakes, but nothing can shake the faith of the believer because faith does not require evidence. Ultimately, say the atheists, the entire pantheon of spirits, saints, and gurus, and their holy bones and holy stones are just holdovers from a primitive time, vestiges of tribal totems and animism.

Of course, religion has come a long way since Abraham was ordered to sacrifice Isaac, especially in response to these challenges. The Catholic Encyclopedia (www.newadvent.org) points out that when we say that a brave man is a lion, we are speaking in an analogy. So, too, when we say that God is all-powerful, all-loving, infinite, eternal, etc., are we analogizing. God is so far beyond our comprehension that no statement is anything more than analogy. Moreover, citing ancient authorities, the Catholic Encyclopedia easily dismisses the metaphysical contradictions, such as “Can God make a stone so large that he cannot lift it?” The religionist reply is that God cannot contradict himself; and it is childish to think that word games reveal understanding.

To me that comes down not to statements of belief but claims of profound ignorance: not only do we not know, but we can never know.

So, when Jacob, Jesus, Mary, Mohammed, and others ascended into “heaven” even though they apparently went straight up into the sky, we know that they did not stop at the clouds. We fly above the clouds. We have been to the Moon, and beyond – and still no evidence for heaven. Religionists dismiss these mythical stories as admittedly the attempts of simple people from ancient times who understood as best they could the miracles that they perceived. Heaven is “beyond the stars” they say. Why did these divines not move at right angles to our space-time continuum and just grow hugely large or sub-atomically small as in Edwin Abbott’s Flatland? Is heaven “beyond dimensionality”? The easy answer is that Flatland was written in 1884, so no divine saint or religious scholar before then had reason to think in those terms. In every way, religion is just another human artifact that advances as all knowledge makes progress: it is not divinely revealed truth.

Serious, sophisticated religionists have serious, sophisticate replies; but why do they have them now and not 2000 years ago? In his many debates with Christian and Jewish religionists, Christopher Hitchens pointed out that as we have become more intelligent, religion has seemed to become so as well. That is to be expected of chemistry, but not of divine revelation. You would expect advances in arts and crafts, but the Revealed Word of God should be something more – if it is indeed that, and not just the imaginings of some persons long ago, constantly re-cloaked in the fashions of the time. Today –even here in The Gulch – religionists now probe the big bang and dark matter and the missing term in the gravitational constant… All of which would have been known, addressed, and answered if any holy book at all – Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Mormon, Jain, Sikh, Buddhist, Mayan… - were in fact a revelation of superior knowledge.

In a debate with two rabbis where he was joined by Richard Dawkins, Hitchens nodded to the civilized, amiable, and open dialog on stage – and then pointed out that such a discussion would have been impossible at time when religionists actually held political power.

That is a moral argument. Hitchens allowed that religion gave some people (perhaps most) a code of ethics for proper behavior. Ayn Rand disagreed. Unlike other atheists who accepted the morality of altruism and only wished that religionists truly practiced it, Rand rejected altruism because she rejected the epistemology of faith and the metaphysics of mystery.

For Ayn Rand, atheism reduces to a single syllogism: The universe is everything that exists. Anything outside of existence does not exist. Therefore the universe had no creator.


All Comments

  • Posted by $ 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks, WillH! My own doubts and questions are close to your own. From virons to ants to us, it seems logical to me to extend the great chain of being. Even a "chain" is merely linear. Beingness probably extends in more dimensions than we can perceive. "... not only more complicated than we do imagine, but more complicated than we can imagine."

    See my review of "Epigenetics" by Nessa Carey on the Gulch here:
    http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/24...
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  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks kh, that is a very pertinent quote from Galt's speech (I had to look it up).
    May I go further? The word 'incompetents' is used. It fits the poetry. But, from Rand elsewhere, your life belong neither to the competent or incompetent, not even to the deserving. Should you wish to help the deserving in need, or even the incompetent, that is your decision, your life, your money.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    To hell with 'common speech now'.

    I don't need a dictionary to figure out the meanings of the incoherent gruntings of the modern barbaric culture. I need it to slap modern barbarians upside the head until they learn that words mean absolute things, not whatever Humpty-Dumpty meaning they might want the word to have at the moment.
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  • Posted by khalling 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    that's nice lucky.
    I have always felt the belief in something all-knowing that can keep man from knowing all, ends up holding men back whether by intention or not.
    "For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors—between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it."
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  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Or more briefly than put by MM to H's point- Thinking people may choose to disagree with definitions in a dictionary, indeed even a legal definition can be senseless.
    (viz a vis- atheism, marriage)
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yeah, the christians lost me when the said I had to spend eternity with my love ones. I can’t get enough time away from them now!
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  • Posted by Lucky 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No brochure..
    Though I may be a fundamentalist atheist I do think that the case for agnosticism is powerfully and poetically put by Omar Khayyam from whom I quote below. If only Islam had developed on those lines!

    The Rubaiyat Of Omar Khayyam
    Edward Fitzgerald translation (v. 29, 30)

    Into this Universe, and why not knowing,
    Nor whence, like Water willy-nilly flowing:
    And out of it, as Wind along the Waste,
    I know not whither, willy-nilly blowing.

    What, without asking, hither hurried whence?
    And, without asking, whither hurried hence!
    Another and another Cup to drown
    The Memory of this Impertinence!
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 11 years, 11 months ago
    I'm a fully convinced agnostic (if that's not an oxymoron), but I understand atheist to believe that there is no God.

    For me, it's just that I hate to take vacation to any place that doesn't have brochures, and so far I haven't seen any.
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  • Posted by $ WillH 11 years, 11 months ago
    There are many who believe that a rational argument cannot be made for the existence of god. It is interesting that the belief there is no god is shared in some of the most liberal and most conservative of people. There are many that think the belief in god is an old fashioned idea unsupported by the modern scientific theory of evolution. There are also examples of people who discard a belief in god because they do not want to be held responsible for their own actions and thoughts beyond their conformity to the laws of man. Some people embracing Objectivism contend that a belief in god is a belief in self-immolation due to the sacrifice to others called for in many religions. Many people believe that to embrace the existence of god is a weakness within the human spirit.
    Consider for a moment the Golden Gate Bridge, the Taj Mahal, the Eiffel Tower, and the Constitution of The United States of America. Among the things these may share in common one is that they are intelligently designed. They do not exist by a random act of nature, or as a product of natural evolution. They could not exist in the physical world without the intelligent design of man, put into form by the actions of man.
    Consider now your own mind. Your mind is wonderfully capable of rational thought, creativity, love, hope, hate, planning, envisioning, and setting it’s will against obstacles in the physical world. Your mind can also struggle against abstract ideas. Think of the questions your mind asks.
    Are we alone in the universe?
    Who am I?
    Why do I exist?
    When you think of the limited function of something like a bridge you accept that man designed and built it. You accept the premise of intelligent design. At the same time you think that man himself is the result of evolution or the random act of nature?
    It has been said that if you put enough monkeys in a room with enough typewriters for enough time they will eventually write something intelligible. In truth we all know that if you put all those monkeys in that room the only thing they will do of their own volition is to destroy the machines. If you put 300 monkeys in a room with a pile of iron ore, bronze, copper and smelting equipment they will never, ever remake the Statue of Liberty. They simply do not have the creativity or the mind to do it. They are the natural product of the evolution of life on Planet Earth.
    I cannot accept that the Golden Gate Bridge, the Taj Mahal, the Eiffel Tower, and the Constitution of The United States of America are products of intelligent design created by the product of random evolution. If this were true it would mean that the creation has exceeded the creator, when in fact all of these creations are less complex and, in the aggregate, less capable than the least of Earth’s life forms.
    I am capable of thinking, reasoning, self-discipline, and logic. At the same time I am capable of vision, love, and hope. I am self-aware and sentient only because I am intelligently designed to be that way.
    Who designed us? Was it God, Allah, space aliens? That is a journey and truth each must seek solo. I have no answers. I only have my reasoning, belief, and yes, I also have my faith.
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  • Posted by $ 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    A good dictionary is always handy because it shows you what a word means in common speech NOW. Any reading of a Shakespeare play will reveal several to many examples. But the sum total of everyone's opinions is not knowledge. I say that I am an atheist. It is easy enough for common interactions.

    However, note that the Merriam-Webster definition of capitalism misses the essential distinguishing characteristic. It could apply to a pre-industrial village, or to life in Cairo in 1600. Objectivism provides a more correct definition:
    http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/capita...

    So, too with atheism. If you understand Objectivist metaphysics, then you know that the universe had no creator. If understand Objectivist epistemology, then you know that you cannot disprove a negative assertion: "No rose gardens are to be found on the dark side of the Moon." Likely not, but the burden of proof is with anyone who claims that such exist. Otherwise, we could arrange words in any number of negations and thereby never arrive at knowledge of anything. A perfect example of such fallacious thinking are the claims by savants before 1900, that heavier-than-air flight is impossible, space travel is impractical, atomic energy is useless, etc. Such claims were not at all delineations of the engineering difficulties, which would have been positive assertions.

    To argue against "God" would be that kind of useless exercise in constructing other people's arguments for them, just to contradict them on your own terms. It is broadly true that atheists are people who have never heard anyone speak of "God" in a meaningful way. So, they reject the concept.

    By the same standard, communism has many conceptual, metaphysical, and epistemological difficulties, even if we grant the political right of a person to freely join a shared-property community. Just sayin' it could work, even though - like heavier-than-air flight before 1903, it never has. If you think it could, then create one and demonstrate how it does. If you wish to argue the morality, we can do that, because those arguments are a priori. But, again, you would have to make a positive claim for communism. If I say "communism is this and this is wrong" it only takes some communist to say, "No! That's not what it means." Well, okay... what does it mean?

    So, too, here: What is God to you?
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "I suppose you guys are actually conservatives who sympathize with Ayn Rand, then. = ) "

    You pegged me.

    However, the gulch seems a pretty diverse and tolerant place... don't expect everyone here to believe in lockstep or to worship at the feet of Ayn Rand... this isn't the Democrat National Convention, after all... :)
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm not sure I can guess haha.

    I suppose we're all pro capitalism, though. We don't have to agree on everything, right? :D
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  • Posted by $ minniepuck 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    most objectivists would say you can't be both Christian and an objectivist. I say most because I have encountered some folks around here who still say they're both, but that's another discussion.

    there are plenty of atheists around here. there are also lots of people who believe in God. some even go to church. this place mostly attracts objectivists, libertarians, and conservatives. can you guess who falls where? :)
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 11 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This is a community of individuals, not a line of lemmings in lockstep. Unless specifically indicated, each of us speaks for himself.

    or, there IS no "you guys"
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  • Posted by Macro 11 years, 11 months ago
    I'm confused. Isn't this community aimed at objectivists? I don't think there were any religious people in the original Galt's Gulch.

    How can a person be a christian and an objectivist at the same time? This sounds a bit inconsistent...

    I suppose you guys are actually conservatives who sympathize with Ayn Rand, then. = )
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