Galt's Gulch
14

So Who Keeps Electing These People?

Posted by SaltyDog 10 years, 5 months ago to Politics
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I think that future historians will look at the record and point to our current era and say, "This is where the Great Experiment in government failed".

I pray that I'm wrong.
SOURCE URL: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_POLL_FAITH_IN_GOVERNMENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-03-11-15-47-05

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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
    The future historians will write that this was the pivotal overthrow of the idea of a constitutionally limited republic. Those who formerly defended it will either have shrugged or be dead.
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    • Posted by DeanStriker 10 years, 5 months ago
      Our worshipped "founders" merely created yet another government of force -- therein lies the problem!

      So please explain just how this "republic" made, or might have made, much real difference.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
        The history of the Founders is well understood. Look back to the prosperity of America particularly during the late 1800's as to what difference it made. The Founders did not create a government of force. Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson and their successors bastardized it.
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        • Posted by DeanStriker 10 years, 5 months ago
          While I certain agree with the bastardization, by those and many others, it all goes back to the beginning. Again I refer to my
          http://no-ruler.net/3460/failures-of-the...
          who created little other than yet another GOVERNment of Force to which all of us are Subjects/Slaves without our consent, which questionable consent may have been obtained by 1789, but cannot morally or legally applied to those who did not consent, nor to anyone born afterward.

          Is not this what Ayn Rand was all about?

          So again I ask how "republic" made much difference. Semantics is a bitch, isn't it?
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
            Admittedly, I would have been an anti-federalist. Nonetheless, Ben Franklin was right when he said that he had given us a republic ... if we could keep it. We haven't.

            The Founders got the best form of government that they could agree upon. Admittedly, less government would be better, but they came up with the best form of government ever known to exist.

            Standard of living is one form of freedom. The standard of living in the 1980's (and even perhaps the 1990's) was the highest ever experienced in any society. By that standard, America's republican form of government made a difference. Certainly we could do better in a Gulch society, but I think that a Gulch society is not scalable to hundreds of millions of people. The number of looters prevents that.
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            • Posted by DeanStriker 10 years, 5 months ago
              Naw, the number of looters will drop to zero. All of us will self-defend, being themselves judge, jury and executioner. The bandits will quickly get the message.
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              • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
                The number of looters drops to zero only if admission to the Gulch is by invitation only and if Gulchers are not allowed to have children in the Gulch. The temptation for power is too great for a high enough percentage of the population such that looters will exist otherwise.
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                • Posted by DeanStriker 10 years, 5 months ago
                  The only Gulch which will ever really exist is already here, but that is simply within our own private homesteads and chosen family/friends. There will be no mass movement to anywhere; a government of force will always prevent anything beyond that.

                  Whenever we have seen governments-all go out of business, there will be no need for a mass Gulch. That's coming.
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                  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 5 months ago
                    There is actually some serious consideration of putting together a physical Gulch. I am part of the planning for such an enclave. However, I think you are right. I think the only Gulch that will ever really exist is already here.
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                    • Posted by DeanStriker 10 years, 5 months ago
                      We have already established our homestead as our Gulch, and continue our efforts to make it more independent, and to increase our resistance efforts. We have room for a few allies to join us, but our offspring will probably not be among those.
                      We're old folks, with limits in both resources and energy, but we have most certainly "drawn our lines" for self-defense. We fully understand that all this is quite likely to bring us to our end, and that's quite okay. Sadly, If that should happen, I suppose that this world will never know of it. So we must live within the limits imposed by the Rulers until/unless that mob goes out of business.
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                • Posted by Zenphamy 10 years, 5 months ago
                  j, How does the old saying go; 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.' I think Gulchers can and should have children, but at a point the Gulch will have to vote/decide on allowing each to stay. Some Gulchers might decide to leave with the children that aren't allowed to stay but those that regardless of teaching and raising don't understand and accept Objectivism by a certain point have to go.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 10 years, 5 months ago
    I would like to see the Electoral College done away with and go to popular vote. Each state should be responsible for their citizens voting. If the country had this set-up maybe more people would vote in Federal Elections.
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    • Posted by SaltyDog 10 years, 5 months ago
      In principle I would agree. Unfortunately they can't get an election without large doses of fraud even with the electoral college safeguards. Can you imagine for a moment what popular vote numbers would look like from a place like, say, Illinois? The final tally would be ready two years before the election!
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      • Posted by Owlsrayne 10 years, 5 months ago
        Okay, I think I just changed my stance. I was just watching NewMax interviewing Dick Morris author of Power Grab and I'm beginning to think that BHO is really trying to create a one party state. Apparently he has 21 states to change their election laws to by-pass the Electoral College so those states can go by pop vote depending which way the poling goes. Morris presents a compelling case that BHO wants control our very lives from the Internet to gun owners.
        I wonder if the rest of the Gulcher's see this as a plausible scenario?
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 10 years, 5 months ago
          Yep, if not the Obamanation, then the HillaryCrack will do it. As long as the Empires voting system is compromised by fraud, money, special interests, fraud, more money, and hidden agendas, voting cannot be trusted for anything. Lies built on lies to the point truth is just a fiction that is "Out There".
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          • Posted by SaltyDog 10 years, 5 months ago
            Stalin once said something to the effect that it doesn't matter who votes. It doesn't matter who they vote for. What matters is who counts the votes.

            It wouldn't take much to convince me that Rahm might hold something very much like that as a core belief.
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