One Observation Regarding Forced Vaccines
Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 2 months ago to Business
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While we're very happy to have you in the Gulch and appreciate your wanting to fully engage, some things in the Gulch (e.g. voting, links in comments) are a privilege, not a right. To get you up to speed as quickly as possible, we've provided two options for earning these privileges.
If not vaccinating becomes a popular choice, offices and other places people gather may need to adopt their own policies requiring vaccination, and someone will have to develop tests to catch cheaters. This leads to other questions including liability (of individuals and of facilities). These are hard enough problems that "cutting the Gordian knot" by mandating vaccination has some appeal, even if I'd rather we not do it.
It struck me that even an anonymous-but-voluntary process that logged only the illness and the zip code might help in tracking causes and spread of a plethora of maladies.
Any input on that?
They gotcha comin' and goin'....
I appreciate your comnent.
Buddy, there are things I could tell you over a beer on this that would blow your mind.
That does not mean we can't discuss vaccinations.
And, yes, since a vaccine will trigger someone's immune system there is a risk that the person will have an atypical reaction. Nothing is completely safe, it is, however, safer than going without.
How do we REALLY feel about forcing people to get medical treatment? For or against? Not "ok public school, not ok private school". That's not the case according to the text of the law and according to the numerous committees it's been through.
I have a lot of problems with coyotes eating my chickens. I figure that a fence that is designed to keep Fido in will probably keep Coyote out.
It is warm outside today. The run looks quite sturdy, though, and I am pleased (thus far).
Jan
We are about to build a double fence 4’ high and 4’ apart as a deer jumping barrier and to double as a chicken, or domestic quail, run.
The healthimpact news starts with a false statement and then triumphantly tries to disprove it as if it is revealing a hidden truth. The false statement is that if vaccines 'really' worked, they would protect you and you couldn't get the disease.
As Jan has pointed out in technical detail, vaccines do not, in themselves, prevent you from getting the disease. That's a gross simplification. What they do is expose your own immune system to the aspects of the disease so that it can prepare a response. The immune system learns to deal with diseases when it encounters them. Normally it starts preparing to fight the disease while the disease is progressing through your body. If it catches up, you're cured, if not, you can die.
By exposing your immune system to aspects of the disease ahead of time, it can be prepared to face a future encounter with the real thing. By being prepared you are much more likely to defend against it, but it's not an absolute guarantee -- so you would rather not be surrounded by people carrying the disease.
Perhaps later, I can come back and chime in further.
Jan
If your up to it, what about the claims in these two links?
http://vactruth.com/history-of-vaccine-s...
http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/the-her...
“Governor Brown, I’m sure you recognize that children today are subject to no less than 3 times as many vaccines as the previous generation. Parents today are facing a much more significant question about vaccines than parents 30 years ago were facing."
Comment: We did not have these some of these vaccines a generation ago; the ones we did have, generally were required. Hep B vaccine was developed in the 1980's, but was used amongst risk populations (hospital workers; IV drug users) at first. This vaccine also protects against liver cancer, since 80% of the liver cancer is due to Hep B. Measles vaccine was put into general use in the 1970's; it resulted in a decrease from >700,000 cases per year to about 600 cases per year in the US. (Remember the death rate from measles is about 135/million.) Rotavirus vaccine is a recent addition - probably ~ 2010. It reduces by 50% the death rate for rotavirus diahorreal gastroenteritis.
"Something is broken, Governor Brown. Our children have never been sicker, and our requirement for vaccines has never been higher. I understand correlation doesn’t equal causation, but please point me to a study that shows the benefit of heavy metal exposure on the human body. Children in the U.S. are fraught with auto-immune diseases, deadly allergies, asthma, eczema, perpetual ear infections, and childhood cancers. Autism rates are staggeringly high (1 in 68)."
Comment: This paragraph conflates several different concepts into one emotional plea. The perceived ill health and allergies of our current generation of children is arguably more closely related to their hygienic upbringing (yes, that is what I meant to say) than to the presence of vaccines in their lives. It is also something of an illusion because 'routine death' of children has been replaced by 'allergies'. I know of no study that indicates that Thimerosal relates to autism. Asking for proof that heavy metals cause health is disingenuous at best, irrational at worst. She is probably right that 'something is broken' but the 'something' is probably not vaccines.
"According to the CDC, our infant mortality rate is higher than any of the other 27 first world countries! This wasn’t the case 30 years ago. Don’t you think we should figure out what is happening to our babies? I personally know four people that have lost their baby to SIDS. Is that normal?”
Comment: Again, an irrational and emotional plea. One of the benefits of capitalism is that it has genuinely and spontaneously raised the standard of living in poor countries at a faster rate than it has raised it in developed countries. This is not to say that our standard of living has not improved, but that the standards of living of poor people have improved dramatically - including their health care. The main factor in the poor rating of the US in terms of neonatal deaths is that the US experiences almost double the rates of pre-term delivery as the countries with the best statistics. If you correct for that factor, the the US doctors are just as good at taking care of a baby of a specific age of gestation and birth weight as anywhere else in the world. So the question becomes: why are women in the US so prone to pre-term deliveries? I do not know the answer, but I doubt that it is due to vaccines because many countries with low neonate death rates also require vaccinations: Singapore's vaccination list looks a lot like ours, and they have the lowest neonatal death rate in the world.
Jan
“One mother, Caitlan Sullivan, has become so concerned about her rights as a parent being taken away that she has made her views on the subject abundantly clear in a letter she wrote to California Governor Jerry Brown:
“Governor Brown, I’m sure you recognize that children today are subject to no less than 3 times as many vaccines as the previous generation. Parents today are facing a much more significant question about vaccines than parents 30 years ago were facing.
Something is broken, Governor Brown. Our children have never been sicker, and our requirement for vaccines has never been higher. I understand correlation doesn’t equal causation, but please point me to a study that shows the benefit of heavy metal exposure on the human body. Children in the U.S. are fraught with auto-immune diseases, deadly allergies, asthma, eczema, perpetual ear infections, and childhood cancers. Autism rates are staggeringly high (1 in 68).
According to the CDC, our infant mortality rate is higher than any of the other 27 first world countries! This wasn’t the case 30 years ago. Don’t you think we should figure out what is happening to our babies? I personally know four people that have lost their baby to SIDS. Is that normal?” (sic)
The concept that there will be a federal law that requires vaccinations for adults is interesting, but pretty speculative.
I think that the center point of the discussion is whether the State has the right to require vaccinations for public schools. I think they do, but only if this issue has been voted on and passed by the people.
I keep needing to remind myself to separate my emotional response to being forced to do something (even something I like, such as eat chocolate chip cookies) that I would do voluntarily vs the logic of whether the basic decision to get vaccinations is good. (I do tend to have a button push when someone makes me do something. Or tries to.)
Jan
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