Atlas Shrugged Part III Galt Speech

Posted by deleted 12 years, 8 months ago to Movies
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Any opinions or details on how Galt's speech will be handled in the movie? The actual speech is quite lengthy and so may not be exactly reasonable for the movie, but is arguably the best and most important part of the novel. So, how will this be handled? Will it be shortened to appeal to the viewer or kept lengthy for the Objectivist fans?


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  • Posted by oldsoldier96 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    with common core comming to our schools it is more likly Atlas Shrugged will be banned rather than embraced!!
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  • Posted by oldsoldier96 12 years, 8 months ago
    I have to say the speech was a bit long winded, better shorter and more on point like Howard Rorks court room speech in the Fountainhead 3 hrs is a bit much for most people to take and digest!!
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  • -1
    Posted by C_S 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No, John Galt would simply try to lecture the computer with faux Aristotle chop=logic for five hours straight, just like he did in the most infamously awful chapter in 20th-century fiction.
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  • Posted by overmanwarrior 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh, don't cry now. Pay attention to Atlas and don't attempt to make it into some MTV reality show, and you might learn something.

    The characters of Atlas would never allow themselves to be locked out of a space ship by a stupid computer. And they certainly wouldn't be baffled by "The monolith." Instead, they would have just invented a new space ship and devised a way to unlock the secrets of the strange relic instead of spending two movies trying to react to its implications.
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You did it. Now I have to go back and watch What the Bleep again. It's been years. I just remember thinking it was fun. Now I have a project for the weekend.
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  • Posted by Dmerrill 12 years, 8 months ago
    It needs to be brief, concise and to the point--if only to be absorbed by as many open minds as possible. Unfortunately, American attention span necessitates that. I read this book as a high schooler at my father's urging--small business owner. My hope is that it become mandatory reading for every high school senior. However, liberals in charge of our children's education would never allow that, so a movie is much more palatable and more likely to be seen.
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  • Posted by XenokRoy 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think your jumping ahead of yourself. The first question is what was the objective of making the movie? You are assuming that it was to make money. Perhaps it was to market an ideal that needs to be more broadly known, and pay for itself in the process, making money may have been secondary.

    The characters in the book they market with the movies certainly took an approach that cost millions to stop the looters world. A world where they would be free to keep whatever it was they owned and have laws that protect the honest man, not the thief. Losing fortunes to make it happen.

    Perhaps, just maybe, the quest to become the ideal man or woman is what they wish to to educate people with in an entertaining way. If that is the goal, the movies have been a huge success.

    Look at the book sales of Ayn Rands Books over the last 4 years. Over 2 million copies of Altas sold (close to half a million on the low years and a little over half a million on the hire years. Prior to the 1st movie its under 100k copies sold in a year. The moves have increased book sales by 5 to 1, and held them there 4 years running.

    I cant say exactly how many of here others books have increased in sales. However I bought up extra copies of hardback in 2006 of The Virtues of Selfishness, Philosophy who needs it, and Capitalism the unknown ideal. My plan was to give them to people who I talked with that became interested. I did not end up doing that and recently sold them for anywhere from 4 to 8 times what I bought them for. I would also say this would be an indicator of the success of the movies in creating demand for her writing and expanding the exposure to Objectivism.

    The fact that they did a 2nd movie and are still doing a third says there is more to it than just the money angle. If that was all there was to it then why make them?

    On the other hand I agree that the speech will have to be shortened. Even I would likely not sit through a three hour speech in a movie that will have to be shorter than that in its entirety. It will be difficult to make it a 3-6 minute speech and keep the focus and content in tact. That will be necessary to capture and deliver the ideal the book teaches and still have the movie watchable by many a movie goer.

    I personally would love a extra of the full speech with visual in all its splendor on the CD. While I do not find it the best part of the book; the Whole speech is given in much better ways throughout the book. I do find it the most concise piece on objectivism ever provided and would pay a few extra bucks for a CD which included a video delivery of the speech.

    Once again though I agree that to deliver it in the movie in its full length splendor would not be the best of ideas. Let those that see it read the book, or watch the extra to get the full deliver in there own time, when they are ready to move a little father down the path of knowledge and understanding.
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  • Posted by 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your idea of showing Dagny concerned with the failing railroads interests me, though I, being the Objectivist I am, would have to disagree. If all other railroads have failed, it actually increases her chances since she could become a monopoly. Also, if her rails did fail, what would it matter if others had been opened still? She would still make no profit. It would be interesting, but since Dagny is such an Objectivist, it doesn't really seem in her character to look towards making a profit for others versus making a profit for herself. It would always be clear to her that her profit is what mattered most and thus all she looked towards in the novel. Her profit was her livelihood and her greed was her virtue. In my opinion, I just don't see it working for her to take a step away from objectivism and think like that. If it was any other company as the last railroad, she would not be concerned for there is no profit to gain from it. She only has to worry about her own company and her own profit.
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  • -1
    Posted by C_S 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Thanks for demonstrating exactly what I mean. The movie flew past you. "Atlas" is much more your speed, and it shows.
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  • Posted by overmanwarrior 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    People who are smart understand that wishful thinking does not re-word the second word spelling of a two word title in order to satisfy a fantasy. 2001 A Space Odyssey is a good movie. But it's not Atlas. If the measure of goodness, is special effects, then maybe. But if the measure of goodness is philosophy, Atlas wins big. Didn't the guys in 2001 get locked outside of their ship by a computer? That sounds like a liberal to me, and not a very smart person.
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  • Posted by Non_mooching_artist 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well said, Ryan. Welcome by the way. I find it to be inspiring as well. If I'm feelin stuck creatively, I read it. It gets the engines firing again, so to speak.
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  • Posted by ObjectiveAnalyst 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Seems quite reasonable and appropriate for the movie release. But if my will be done, I would like a special edition DVD with the entire speech option. I would just hope for snappy cadence.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    one thing we discussed in this thread was the inclusion of the speech in a DVD release. The Gettysburg address is three paragraphs long. that won't cut it in my estimation. but I kinda agree with TerryCan that 7 minutes, if done well, is fine. There have been some powerful movies with long speeches in them. I just recently posted part of a long speech given by Tracey in Inherit the Wind,1960. Darren, you were the defendant!:)
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  • Posted by terrycan 12 years, 8 months ago
    Galt's speech word for word would be pure Russian Poetry. Yeech! I believe the message can be delievered in 7 min. 7 min is the average American attention span. This has been hard wired by network TV and commercials. Perhaps a break at 7 min and show the technicians trying to block the signal without success. Then back to Galt and wrap it up.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    you're really worked up about this. but the fact you are in here tells me you feel some affinity to the movies, I think
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  • Posted by darren 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    >>>what skin do you have in the game?

    My time. As a member of the movie-going public, I do not savor the idea of wasting 2 hours of it in a theater.
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  • Posted by darren 12 years, 8 months ago
    I thank contributors to this thread for their comments regarding my posts.

    Two more points:

    1) Another variation of a more focused story that would still contain the gist of the novel would be to have Dagny (the protagonist) not just trying to start the John Galt Line for purely personal reasons, but she is tasked with saving rail itself as a means of transportation: the entire industry is counting on her! Early in the story, she finds out about this amazing new technology (i.e., the motor) invented by one man. She needs to find this guy in order to get the motor to save her own business and the entire industry of rail. Galt could still be a shadowy figure, but his "kidnapping" of men of ability would be done for the express purpose of stopping her, and not merely as a big abstract philosophical issue about "sanction of the victim". That way, he's an actual CONCRETE antagonist. To bring things up to date, Rearden could own an Intel-like corporation, in which he is manufacturing a unique microprocessor -- using, e.g., "quantum computing" -- and which makes use of special nano-particle-sized metallic coating made of something he calls "Rearden Metal". Dagny knows she can save Taggart Rail (and the rest of the industry) by combining Rearden's technology with the new motor. Etc., etc.

    This approach "fuses" together several subplots of the novel, but it still tells the gist of the book and (in principle, at least) is much more focused than AS-I and AS-II turned out to be.

    Again, there are probably many approaches to this, but the main thing — the difficult thing in all novel-to-screen adaptation — is in deciding what the actual story is in the novel, and then deciding on what to leave out when writing the screenplay.

    2) Regarding long speeches in films: they're deadly. "Movies" have the word "move" in them. They're ultimately about the kinds of choices the characters make as shown by how they act; what they do, not what they say. If a long speech really is necessary, then the only way to film it without putting the audience to sleep is to concentrate on the REACTIONS of the other characters on hearing the Great Words of the speech-giver. This has to be done during the speech, and not merely as an effect of the speech after it has been completed.

    Example:

    There's a fine old movie from 1935 starring Charles Laughton called "Ruggles of Red Gap." Briefly: an Englishman is playing poker with an American millionaire and losing badly. As a last resort (he's already lost his cash), he bets his butler, Ruggles (played by Laughton). He loses again, and Ruggles now becomes an employee of the American. Back in the US, Ruggles slowly becomes Americanized and sets out on his own business, transitioning from being a mere employee to an entrepreneur in his own right. The climax is when he is forced to show to others that he is not only American, he is MORE American than they are, because he can movingly recite The Gettysburg Address from memory. While reciting this (thankfully) short speech, the director, Leo McCarey, focuses almost exclusively on the reactions of the Americans hearing this English transplant recite words that are part of their cultural background. It works quite well because a) the speech is short and very well written, and 2) the audience's attention is focused on a variety of different images during the speech, and not simply on a big closeup of the character giving the speech.

    In the case of Galt's Speech, the filmmakers should cut it down to something about as long as . . . the Gettysburg Address. Everything about metaphysics and epistemology has to be cut. No one pays $15.00 for a movie ticket to hear a lecture on the nature of concepts. The speech would have to have some "shock value" to its words, involving e.g., the Virtue of Selfishness, and the director would have to show the audience the reactions of the various characters during this speech.
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  • -2
    Posted by C_S 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The basic idea is sound, even though your division is bad.

    Stupid people get movies like "The Hangover."

    Smart people get movies like, oh, say, "2001: A Space Odyssey."

    People who are stupid but want to tell themselves they are smart anyway get "Atlas Bombed, Parts I through III" and then throw their shoulders out patting themselves on the back.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    OK, because you both mentioned this, I started to watch What the Bleep. Tying quantum physics to a rehash of Plato is not science. It's applying a veneer of the concept to justify a premise that is false.
    for example, because one sees a mirage, one cannot trust ones senses.
    Because people thought the world was flat at one time, we can't trust our knowledge. But the reality is, assuming the earth was flat within certain bounds, was reasonable. A = A
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I too like What the Bleep. Joli as Dagny would have been really hard for me to swallow. She only fits the rolls like Salt to me. You're right about the F**K O** attitude too. I don't have the patience for stupid.
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  • Posted by overmanwarrior 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Good points. I don't see the value in the opinion of a critic, as they don't produce anything but................opinions. If people like the product, they will buy it. If they don't, they of course won't. People who make livings giving opinions are those who need someone else to produce something worth giving an opinion. Movie critics can only hope to establish a level of quality for the product on the big screen. Without someone making a movie, the critic doesn't have much to do, so I don't see them as productive.

    In that regard, I would say critics do need to be respectful of ownership because without a producer, the moocher has little value. Critics are moochers.
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  • Posted by LionelHutz 12 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Your first line gets dangerously close to rejecting any criticism. If you don't own the rights, you need to be respectful of the final result? Critics do NOT need to be respectful of the rights of ownership. If they were, you would never hear them say "hey - this movie was not well made." First Darren gets the reaction "tell us what you would have done different instead of just being critical." Then he tells you exactly what he would have done different. Then it turns into "well, you don't have the rights to the movie, so your ideas don't count. Be respectful." He is being treated unfairly.

    Darren hasn't said "change the content of the movie so it isn't, you know, atlas shrugged." He's criticized the approach and said they crammed too much into a single movie.

    You brought up The Passion, and I think it's an excellent comparison. Two movies whose message the established left hates.

    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/atlas_sh...
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/passion_...

    Now, something is going on here beyond "they're just going to hate the movie because of the message" when ASII gets 5% from the critics, and POTC gets 49%.
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