Jackass???
Posted by AmericanGreatness 10 years ago to News
I have no issue whatsoever hunting, if you eat what you kill. To kill simply for the sake of the thrill of the kill, you are a JACKASS.
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http://time.com/3976344/cecil-lion-zi...
Despite the media hate against the chap who did not know the lion was famous, tourists such as him are not the real reason Zimbabwe’s precious wildlife is being decimated. It is the ruinous land-management policies practiced by the Mugabe regime over the past 15 years.
Zimbabwe was once celebrated as the “breadbasket of Africa,” fertile earth supplied the world with abundant tobacco, corn and wheat. Today, 76% of its rural population lives in abject poverty, dependent on foreign food aid.
In year 2000, Mugabe enacted a disastrous land-reform policy.
Thousands of white landowners were violently evicted from their farms.
Farms were divided up and nationalized. Many were given to generals and ministers.
The destruction of property rights led to a disintegrating economy and widespread poverty.
I hate dentists.
Get over it. You don't get to tell Africa they can't have big game trophy hunts. Economics!
http://www.luxuryhunts.com/index.html
My father would always remind us that there were only two reasons to kill an animal. 1) for food and 2) because they are eating something you make living off. 3) they are a danger to you or others.
So adding in the other two reasons, yes this person is a jack ass. Killing for the sake of killing shows a character flaw and a love of making other things suffer. It is not rational.
Although I have seen a mountain lion that liked walk through the main street of a small town and growl at people, showing other aggressive behavior. When fish and game refused to do anything about it, the mountain lion seamed to go elsewhere on its own as it was no longer seen in town.
Wolves brought back into Yellowstone should be shot on site outside of Yellowstone by the ranchers there. Talk about a stupid creature to repopulate in a place where they would be and are a problem for people in the area. It is to protect their cattle.
To wrap this post up, I hate dentist anyway. They drill and cause pain and to have one be a jackass that just seals the deal, dentists suck!
Really do dislike dentists and it is not rational. It comes from getting in a fight at 15 where I got hit with a bat in the face, stripped that bat and broke several bones in the other person (19 year old guy). Well my father thought that if I were going to get into fights like that I should deal with the consequences. I had two root canals with no pain killer what so ever and have not cared to see a dentists ever since,
However it did make me think twice about letting my temper get the best of me and laying into someone like that again, or letting a situation escalate to that point before reacting. So it did teach a valuable lesson.
I think about how many guys I know...many of them good guys, decorated war veterans, etc. who enjoy going to Africa for a guided hunt. All of these guys have many pictures of them standing with beautiful animals they just shot. Are all of these guys subject to blackmail/death threats? I'm just not understanding this recent trend.
done venting...
And, way to descend into name calling... demonstrates in technicolor your lack of intellectual capacity.
Just like I just said, unless you're dependent on the food of the hunt then you think it's wrong.
There isn't a deer hunter today who hunts JUST for the meat... it's not a cheap meat...cheaper to buy at the store...after licenses and tag fees and all the work and equipment that goes into it, the processing of the meat, its expensive and a lot of hard work. That's the reality of it...hunting is not a poor man's sport...they hunt for the thrill of it (and enjoy the meat), but IT IS A SPORT and it's competitive among hunters. Just because YOU don't understand it, or just want to take a 'superior' position does not make you right. It makes you the title of your own post and shows your lack of intellectual capacity. (And it's a survival skill as well that shouldn't be underrated.)
Killing purely for the kill is wrong, and that's the question at hand. I did not resort to calling you names, but you did.
If you can't understand, no amount of rational dialogue will accomplish it. It's like attempting to convince a liberal zealot that liberalism is a fundamentally flawed ideology.
You started this post with name calling. I'm pointing out that you are the name you called.
And just because you didn't name call me you attacked by implying I have an inferior intellectual capacity...which is the same stance you take repeatedly when you get cornered.
Good luck trying to make hunting a meat only activity..... and trying to kill the taxidermists businesses too.
Am I the only one who understands how this works? Everyone benefits... Letting a trophy lion die of old age is a WASTE.
It's morally depraved to kill for fun.
And you think its immoral to kill animals for fun. One old mangy, tick infested lion with no reasoning ability. There is no morality between animals and humans
Do you think deer hunters hunt solely for the purpose of putting meat on their table? That no hunters donate the meat to charity? That they don't consider it a sport? That they don't have head mounts or rack trophies hung on their walls? That they don't find it exciting to bag a deer? That there is no adrenaline flowing when their efforts and practicing and preparations finally pay off? That there is not a sporting aspect to it at all? You don't understand hunting then. And it's an expensive sport that keeps many people employed. From the licenses you have to purchase, the gear, guns, ammo, scents, bone saw, knives, bags, rope, tents, camping equipment...to the meat processing (not a cheap way to put meat on your table either), to the taxidermy if you can afford it (many hundreds). It's a sport! And many humans benefit.
What ISN'T sporting is herding cows and anal electricuting them so you can have steak.
Do I need to explain the reason and the need for hunting seasons too?
Again, I have no issue whatsoever with eating the animal. My issue is with jackasses setting out with specific purpose of sport killing simply for the excitement of killing an animal.
All of these animal rights activists who are going ballistic over this calling him a murderer and wanting HIM shot and skinned, are completely missing the benefits the locals get out of these hunts... but they never see the BIG picture they just go down the path where their emotions lead them. Lions are gorgeous so they shouldn't be hunted, kind of thinking. Now they want to ruin his business. Vicious mob mentality.
Hunting is a sport, whether it's a trophy hunting, or deer or anything else... get over it AG.
(Think about it...if the mob gets their way, this villages will have NO income. Nobody wants to SEE THE TRUTH of what they demand out of emotional over reaction.)
If people want to do it, they should be able to do so. I do think its a jackass kind of thing to want to do. I have hunted many times, but when the permits reached a point (and we do need permits and hunting seasons) where it was no longer cost effective to do it for the food, I quit hunting. A brother in-law of mine runs a hunting business for a living, and makes his living from people like this that want trophy bears and mountain lions mounted and stuffed. He does not care about the meat, nor does he think of it in the same way I do. I think in this way he is a jackass but he has every right to be so, and make his living in doing it.
I won't do it as I disagree with killing for sport. I also think that people have the right to do it, even though I disagree with it. Such behavior is not viewed as bad (jackass) by many people and I respect the rights of others to live their lives as well.
I also see the hunting as a necessity to control population levels, particularly of predators, so that the prey does not extend to people and stays with the animals they normally hunt.
I obviously failed to get that point across. I do not hold others to my values, they are mine. I hold only me to them. A person who does not see this as a jackass thing to do should go do it.
Make more sense now?
This thread and this story have now been blown so far out of proportion its just laughable. The guy paid for permits, did everything he should have and killed the favored animal of the area. Unless there was something done incorrectly it should go away. He likely will not get his mounted trophy Lion he paid to get. Even a Jackass deserves to get what he worked and paid for with his efforts and by agreement. Its to bad he is likely not going to.
You likely find it in your best interest to clean up their shit and enjoy them, good for you. I hope you enjoy them.
I personally think it would be cool to buy a few monitor lizards and have them running around the farm all summer. The winter would likely kill them even if I had a shelter for them, but they would be cool.
I also realize I am not the norm in the industry, most hunters hunt for sport. I would bet that all likely hunt for sport today. Those that hunted for any other reason have been driven out by costs.
I have been asked before by other hunters what the biggest buck is I ever bagged. My answer has always been "I do not know or care." to which I get looked at like I am nuts.
I read a biography of Larry H. Miller in which one of his hunting buddies said "As soon as I shot anything the fun ends and the work begins." and I thought that never has a more true statement been uttered. When I did hunt it was more about going out with friends for a few days of camping, hiking around... if I got my buck the first day the work was done and I could just enjoy the rest of it.
If it was a spike or two point, it was smaller, easier to clean and easier to pack out. The whole thing would become jerky as that was the one thing I really enjoyed from Venison anyway and a smaller animal gave me plenty.
What I wouldn't do is travel across the country, find a vacant field with mice in it, and they kill them just for the sake of killing them.
Any more irrelevant questions?
Again, the problem is we've got mob people who don't hunt, hate hunting, hate guns, think animals are the same as humans, making a target out of someone and making demands and wanting the mob government to make changes to things that the government knows nothing about either. Not that that ever stops them.
I hear the fish and game department is now going to work with africa to get to the bottom of it (intrusive as hell) but I hope the truth comes out and people listen to ALL the facts. There are some lies being told, I think, to fuel the fire.
If this had been ANY other lion besides this popular Cecil you'd have never heard about it.
The way I see it, this is going to ruin the entire economic base for the locals who survive and work for the trophy hunt industry.
If you think this hunting is stupid then you think all hunting is stupid...
When SHTF...I'm clinging to my skilled hunters.
Just because this certain lion is the one who took the bait in Africa is why it's being made into a big deal.
1. Hunted Deer with a 30-30 riffle, and a WSM 7mm. Both very easy to do so some spotting several weeks before the hunt and get your deer without fail. Really not sporting or challenging from my viewpoint
2. I moved to flint riffles which was more fun as it was more challenging and very particle to learn to hunt with because of the availability of stuff to make into balls. I then also moved to bows. I suck with bows, but found it fun anyway. If I am going to work with bows much I need to learn to use them because I do not do well with a bow.
I then quit because it was to dam expensive to get permits to make it worth the money it took to go hunting.
I still go up into the wilderness spotting animals and find that very enjoyable. I now think "what did I ever kill them for" because packing the meat out and cleaning the animal out were a pain in the butt and not fun at all.
Take an old tire, put a piece of ply wood in the center and paint a target it on it. Role it down a hill side and that is your moving target for training. Bounces pretty much just like a deer. Works great and is a lot of fun to take the kids or friends out shooting this way.
I think hunting skills are the ability to track, spot, target and hit an animal. It can also be baiting an animal out, or building a blind so the animal will walk by you, or simply knowing the right place to be at the right time of day. All of this is hunting skills. Some require much less skill (like baiting an animal) than others. Hypothetically, If I need to kill a Mountain lion because its killing my calves I have no problem using bait, or killing it. Its my calves or it that will die, and baiting the mountain Lion out would be the quickest and most efficient possible way to deal with the problem. In reality I would have to comply with laws that govern the killing of that mountain lion, I mean I would never ignore any laws to protect my investment.
There was some dripping sarcasm there about the need to obey stupid laws. A law that protects a Mountain Lion (or more likely around Yellowstone a wolf) over a ranchers herd of cattle is a ridiculous law, and such laws exist. However I would still not put on paper, here or anywhere else any intent to do anything other than comply with these stupid laws. I mean they are the law. If that Mountain Lion were to vanish and never be seen again it would officially be that nature just solved the issue on its own, and that tree I planted in the wooded area of my pasture would have nothing to do with it.
Hunting is good and necessary when it's for food or protection. Killing for fun/trophy is where some of us disagree. Free societies must have morality... the ability to recognize that simply having the ability to do something doesn't mean we should.
Not everyone shares that moral opinion and while I do, an even greater moral opinion is that people have agency to do what they wish, so long as it is by agreement and consent. Everything indicates this guy paid the permits and had agreement and consent to go hunt a Lion. He did what he had paid to do. Even if we think it wrong, it is right that a person can do so.
I could apply this same logic to Standard Oil in the 1890s. the "price fixing" they were accused of and that was made illegal may have in some cases involved some unethical means, but the argument that it should be governed was wrong then and it would also be wrong today.
When it comes to morality each man or woman must live by their own conscience. The only exception to this is when a person initiates force against another and then its a different story.
While I agree that not everyone observes the same moral compass, that doesn't mean its right or productive. Moral relativism is major contributing factor to the decline in our society today. There are absolute rights and absolute wrongs, whether one wishes to recognize them.
Our freedom, liberty, and property rights require a society that is moral. They are inextricably bound, as the Founding Fathers knew all to well. In fact, Adams says it far more eloquently:
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
I'm not sure if you're simply stirring the pot or truly incapable of understanding my point. I truly hope it's the former.
I can't be any clearer: 1) I have NO issue with killing an animal for food, safety, protection of livestock. 2) I believe it's immoral to kill an animal for nothing more than sport/trophy.
Earlier this week there was a suicide bombing in Nigeria.
16 fatalities, 50 people were injured. No lions were harmed.
http://time.com/3972686/boko-haram-ni...
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegra...
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A few comments:
....detailed story about this on ABC news tonight. We had pictures of the dentist inside his surgery, at his desk, the outside of his clinic, some images of lions, dead moose etc. I was thinking of the beheaded and enslaved that get limited coverage. By the way, did the ABC even report the Planned Parenthood selling baby body parts story?
... that someone who was paid to keep him safe took a bribe, knowing what the outcome would be, is reprehensible.
There seems to be a lot of old white males around. Many are above the average age of human death.
Old white males may be tough to eat, for humans, but there would be a market of game keepers who need to feed lionesses. Already we are seeing our major centers of learning who in dehumanizing this community are paving the way for euthanasia.
What use are they? Old white females can help in child rearing but males do little useful, their reasoning abilities have gone They often spout old harmful theories such as economic freedom and property rights, and are lacking in promotion of diversity, communities and sacrifice. Potential hunters from certain areas could pay a great deal, and it is time for flesh as well as wealth to be recycled.
Many nations, not just those of a peace loving religion, could develop this sport and other nations can export their old white males to them for hunting. A sort of redress for the slave trade and a tribute to cultural traditions. Surely many readers will approve, it is only a smiggin away from their posted opinions. "
See also- The society for global progress, fairness and sustainability, s21.
+1
Make another post.
B) I think there is more to this story. It seems like this article was written by an anti hunter who doesn't understand big game hunting, it's rules, or the culture.
C) And you assumed the meat was wasted. Why? :(
I still hate dentists.
The jackass status is firmly acquired by the desire to kill simply for thrill/bragging rights of the kill. The hunter isn't eating the meat. If the locals killed it to eat, I would have no issue whatsoever with it. He did it for the trophy, and that's fundamentally wrong.
The life expectancy of a lion is about 10-14 years.... I guess they should've just let him die of old age, let the meat rot in the bush and the villagers are that much more hungry and no better off in life. Talk about a waste. Wow.
My issue is sport killing. Killing for fun is fundamentally wrong.
I very much enjoy eating meat, including venison. I have no issue with personally killing what I (or my family/friends) eat, but this is a different matter altogether.
It's immoral to kill an animal for the sole purpose of the thrill of the kill.
We should all be able to recognize the difference in hunting for food versus what this jackass did.
The question, however, is the "jackass" label of the dentist. People of partake in this trophy killing are jackasses. They could just as easily go on safari and take a freaking picture. We paid an enormous amount to do just that. Animals are still alive, and the local business is booming.
I think sport/trophy killing demonstrates a fundamental character flaw and lack of respect for life.
I think we should leave it up to the locals what works best for them economically...but I can say with great certainty that no one is going to pay 50,000.00 for a photo with a live animal.
Second, you seem incapable of distinguishing between hunting for food versus hunting to trophy/fun.
It's akin to those who draw moral relevance between George Washington and Bin Laden, calling them both freedom fighters.
You think hunters just hunt for food. YOU'RE the mistaken one. It's an expensive sport and an expensive way to get meat...yes, they eat the meat, but it's part of the whole trophy experience. YOU don't understand hunting. Do you hunt? Answer that question...do.you.hunt?
(Strawman on the moral relevance GW BL crap you just spewed up there too.) I think you just made my point actually. The real jackass just stood up.
As the goes, never wrestle with a pig... you both end up covered in manure, and the pig enjoys it. I made the unfortunate mistake of hopping in the pigpen with you.
You just became my trophy :)
The perfect freedom you seek doesn't exist in the world and never will, because removing the moral compass actually results in loss of freedom.
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.-- John Adams
"Faith and feelings are the warm marrow of evil. Unlike reason, faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusion, any whim. They are virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched. Faith and feelings are the darkness to reason’s light. Reason is the very substance of truth itself. The glory that is life is wholly embraced through reason. In rejecting it, in rejecting reason, one embraces death."
Terry Goodkind
I do not care what YOU accept or WHO judges me...what the fuck are you even talking about. You do NOT understand the premise of this sight at all...why are you hear.
Christ if it isn't CG it's this guy hounding the crap out of me.
Thanks Scott, again for ignoring this type of behavior in YOUR gulch.