Galt's Gulch

Oregon shooting

Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago to News
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I am going to reserve judgment until I know more.
SOURCE URL: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/10/01/officials-active-shooter-oregon-college/73153610/

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  • Posted by Calrenman 9 years, 10 months ago
    When your right to life is threatened by another individual you have the right to defend yourself on equal terms as the perpetrator of the threat. If a government or public servant of a government wishes to deter or deny your right to self defense than they are in violation of your rights. I prefer to be responsible for my own defense rather than have someone else defend me! Molon Labe.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
      Uh, you must not live in the wonderful Socialist State of Oregon. here, all they tell you is how you have no rights, but those the State chooses to give you at that moment, irregardless of what is written. It is the poster child of just how bad a state can get when it has a majority voting block beholding to the state (the PERS retirement crowd). It is almost a single issue vote state. As long as you keep the pers piggies suckled up to the teat, you stay in power. That was conclusively proven last fall with the sucklings re-elected a governor who was a criminal, who them promptly resigned and we now have an unelected governor who is just as bad. The opponent failed because he had the audacity to point out the state will be bankrupt in a few years. In Oregon you have no rights to anything.
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  • Posted by NealS 9 years, 10 months ago
    Oregon recently passed some new gun laws similar to the ones recently passed in Washington State. Perhaps we should let a few states pass extreme gun laws and then see how much more they get like Chicago, Washington DC, New Jersey. Of course however passing extreme laws in some states only gives them an excuse that crime goes up because guns are available in the state next door. What kind of sense does that make? Crime goes up because guns are no longer available here but still available in a the state next door? Give me a break. Perhaps that's why Chicago has so many shootings, because guns are available in other cities, or states, or countries.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
      All law has no meaning if not enforced. So they can make all the silly stupid laws they want. Let see, it is illegal to have classified information on a non govt email server, right? No prosecution. It is illegal to kill a policeman, right? Several no prosecutions. They only enforce the laws they want to. Justice is a dead concept right now. Chicago is proof of that, I do believe they have some pretty draconian gun laws, doesn't seem to help much until the morons in power wake up and realize it is the bad guys who have the guns and really, really don't give a damn about their "laws".
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  • Posted by bradberry1984 9 years, 10 months ago
    I live in this town they call Roseburg Oregon. A good portion of the wood that your homes were built with came from our County. We are a county of hard workers and ethics. We are also a county of Vets and the poor. The UCC campus is in my Water District and I have been dealing with media, and BS since the minute this happened. We do not like this attention. If I would have to guess I would say that 60% of adults in this county are CCW permit holders and we like our guns. I found this posting on FB that kind of sums up who we are: Share this so the nation can see ‪#‎Roseburg‬ through the eyes of one of its beloved residents.
    Roseburg, Oregon is a city steeped in the tradition of quality, sustainable ‪#‎lumber‬. Our community is encompassed by the North and South ‪#‎UmpquaRivers‬. These rivers provide life-sustaining hydration to the forests that the county has depended on for industry for the last 80 years. They are the namesake of many businesses in this area, including our local community college.
    We are ‪#‎millworkers‬ and the families of millworkers. We smell of lumber, grease, sweat, babies, ‪#‎happyhour‬, hard work and the ‪#‎AmericanDream‬. In the evenings, we enjoy a ‪#‎beer‬ and football, on the weekends we hunt and fish, in the summer we ‪#‎floattheriver‬, and every month we bust our butts to put food on the table and provide for our families. We are second, third, fourth, fifth and maybe sixth generation Douglas County residents. We ‪#‎standforthenationalanthem‬, we ‪#‎supportourtroops‬, we protect our property, and we take pride in this way of life.
    We are not ‪#‎uccshooting‬.
    We are not ‪#‎guncontrol‬.
    We are ‪#‎roseburgoregon‬.
    We are ‪#‎douglascounty‬.
    We are nurses, teachers, ‪#‎students‬, caregivers, ‪#‎lgbt‬, ‪#‎religious‬, non-religious, we song write and paint, ‪#‎cardio‬ and lift, we are millworkers and medical professionals, ‪#‎hairdressers‬, bartenders, ‪#‎actors‬ and construction workers. We are masters degrees and GEDs. We baby wear and cloth diaper. We ‪#‎breastfeed‬ and clean eat. We are republican, ‪#‎democrat‬, independent and ride the fence. We are ‪#‎prochoice‬ and pro life. We are a ‪#‎blendedfamily‬.
    In the wake of this tragedy, our community will open its arms to each other and comfort those who are grieving. We will protect those who feel vulnerable and mourn the loss of our sons and daughters. This... insanity has not broken us; it will bind us together.
    ‪#‎weareUCC‬
    ‪#‎IamUCC‬
    ‪#‎prayforUCC‬
    ‪#‎prayforRoseburg‬
    ‪#‎pray‬
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
    Alek Skarlatos, one of the three people who stopped the Muslim terrorist train situation in France, attended the community college in Oregon where the latest shooting occurred. This might be a coincidence, but I generally don't believe in them. If this is an attack of revenge, then it is perfectly analogous to the Tom Clancy book and movie "Patriot Games".

    The shooter asked the victims what their religion was.

    The French train situation mentioning Alek Skarlatos is linked below:
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/21/europe/...
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    • Posted by Texaswildfire 9 years, 10 months ago
      He not only attended that school, but actually withdrew from classes this semester to participate in "Dancing With the Stars". But for that, he might have been on campus.
      He did leave rehearsals to go home and be with friends and family in Roseburg.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 10 months ago
    You know, I keep thinking these are not just random events...is it probable they are orchestrated?, prodded or contagious?
    My mind keeps going back to Cathy O'Brien's experience with project monarch.
    See: The Trans-formation of America.

    Could it be so? To what degree would you assign a percentage of probability.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
    Charles Krauthammer just said that we should expect such mass shootings once in a while as a consequence of the fact that we have chosen liberty over security, and he thought (like an Objectivist) that the balance of liberty to security was appropriate.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 10 months ago
      Choosing liberty over security is not what created the 'target rich' environment at Umpqua Community College.
      What was forced upon the people by the federal government without their consent was a false security with no rational basis in reality.
      Had we had chosen liberty over security, there would have been a host of free people on campus trained in use of firearms and ready to provide their own security against loonies or government plants wanting to commit suicide in public by attacking the liberty of innocents.
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      • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
        The community college declares itself to be a "gun free zone", which is reportedly contrary to Oregon state law. One person on the campus has said that he has a right to carry a concealed weapon and was, but he was not in or near the classroom targeted and was unable to help..
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        • Posted by $ dballing 9 years, 10 months ago
          I saw a good synopsis of this elsewhere.

          Oregon's laws prevent the college from "banning weapons on campus".

          Due to loopholes they don't prohibit the school from implementing a policy of saying "students may not bring a gun on campus" or "employees may not bring a gun on campus".

          Effectively the only people who are protected by the Oregon statute are visitors to the campus.

          It's literally the worst kind of gun-free zone... the kind where the people regularly there are disarmed, and the people who visit the campus can bring their guns with them legally.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
        I didn't say I agreed with Krauthammer. I thought it was an odd comment, and I agree with you.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 10 months ago
          I know, jb. Thanks for posting Krauthammer's off-the-wall comment so we can rip it to shreds.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
            His comment wasn't totally off the wall. It would have been fine, had he correctly established the critical premise of the argument that you did.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
              I agree. Along with the Sheriff. But many of 'us' could see through the choice of words to that premise and conclusion. We are a distinct minority and endangered species. Literate.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
                The word 'consequence' is the one that will set them off on a PC rant. remember it was our highly educated general public who chose safety over freedom for the last three presidential elections.
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                • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
                  Michael, I am not feeling warm and fuzzy over "Highly educated general public" it ranks right up there with "Change", "I feel your pain" and "For the good of the people". I am assuming you were executing a bit of sarcasm here? Please, please, please say so....
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                  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
                    That line 'highly educated public' was a direct insult on the education system. The rest of it was just fact. You get what you ask for and well deserved. Present company mostly excepted.
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                    • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
                      Agreed, my tongue was way back in my molars when I wrote that. I am 10000% with you. An uneducated voter base is as dangerous, or mo so, than the people they elect, although it's a close call nowadays....
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
      The obvious alternative is having the Directorate of Internal State Security conduct the shootings.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
        Be careful, to my mind we are either there, or damn close to it...
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
          I didn't say that facetiously or with tongue in cheek. I just listened to Obeyme cut the military which does take an oath to the Constitution not the government nor the country nor the people. Then Janet Maraschino ok ok Napolitano declare all of us enemies of the state active and retired. Then Obeyme saying he wants to build up DOHS into force equal to or greater than the military. Flash back to 1930's In English the Protective Echelon in German the Schutzstaffel. No real doubt where it's going. The protection is not for the citizens it's for the government. Add in the heavy increase in federal police forces since Bush One. And the Gestapo style black uniforms. then go look at the original Patriot Act especially the part that somehow changes the meaning of Bill of Rights. Somehow I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling quite the way I used too. Ah well...the mortal coil shuffle is not that far off.

          When you have to give up everything you stood for the war is lost. the 9/11 terrorists won. So did the homegrown variety.

          F' it I did my part.
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          • Posted by $ nickursis 9 years, 10 months ago
            I did too. I agree with you that all those developments do not bode well for the dark future our "highly educated public" has brought to us. I would almost say someone has been working at this for a while, but then I might be labeled as a "conspiracy theorist". Funny, if the HillaryBeast says it's a vast right wing conspiracy, it is fact, if another (such as one of us) says it looks like one, they are "CT". Hmmm. Seems I heard a book read once with such a plot, or near enough..
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
              I shouldn't worry too much about Hillary. We're not talking a full 30 slice loaf. She's been hanging too much with Miss Lube Job. I doubt she could define left and right even for a reward of ten slices. When you have a couple hundred definitions to fit every occasion it rots the brain cells. In Hillary's case that was a one day. the project. The word you are seeking is contemptuous. Some you pity. Some are pitiable Some are held in contempt. Not much more to look for. BRONX CHEER!
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    • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
      Charles Krauthammer is not "like and Objectivist" and Ayn Rand did not argue in terms of setting a "balance".
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
        Rand did not argue in terms of setting a balance. That is correct. What Krauthammer made was what he called a libertarian argument in favor of liberty using the same arguments used by Objectivists routinely in this forum. It was pleasant to hear anyone in the media actually make an argument like I would have heard in Galt's Gulch.
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        • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
          Objectivism does not employ libertarian and conservative "balance" of opposites arguments. Many people who like Atlas Shrugged, for whatever their reasons, do not know much about Ayn Rand and improperly equate "Objectivism" with whatever orthodoxy they bring with them, mixing them together and consequently misrepresenting Objectivism. You said earlier that you thought Krauthammer's argument was "odd" and that you hadn't said you agreed with it. Now you say that it was pleasant to hear it. Perhaps you only mean you were glad to see someone arguing for liberty, but basing it on a "balance" of conflicting ideas is not an Objectivist position no matter what you read from conservatives here or elsewhere.
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          • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
            It was odd seeing someone in the media speaking an argument based on liberty, even if it was based on the flawed premise of a society with gun control.
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            • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
              I had a somewhat similar reaction but didn't characterize it as "odd" (let alone Objectivist). He came down on behalf of a vague notion of 'liberty', which didn't strike me as particularly unexpected from him even though we usually don't see even that much in public. But he thoroughly wrapped it in the typical 'tradeoff' rhetoric of collective subjectivism and tradition of what "we do". That may be logically "odd" in the sense that it is a non-argument, but not in the sense of the unusual. We hear it all the time, especially from conservatives appealing to tradition with nothing better by which to defend a desire for freedom to at least some extent.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 9 years, 10 months ago
        I know that you think I equated Krauthammer to Ayn Rand. I did not. He did say that this kind of event should be expected given that our society has chosen liberty over security. Objectivists also place liberty over security. However, this does not make Krauthammer an Objectivist or equate him with Ayn Rand. They have different premises.
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        • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
          I think that you equated Krauthammer's statement to Ayn Rand because it's what you wrote: Your wrote that "he thought (like an Objectivist) that the balance of liberty to security was appropriate". Ayn Rand did not argue in terms of creating "balances" between conflicting ideas .
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  • Posted by steelhorse21 9 years, 10 months ago
    Has anyone heard whether or not he was muslim? I keep hearing atheist but muslim would also explain the christian question.
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    • Posted by ewv 9 years, 10 months ago
      His alleged atheism does not explain murder. Neither would simply being a Muslim. The vast majority of Muslims in this country don't run around murdering people. They are not Islamo fascists or terrorists, just as most American Christians have nothing in common with the original ascetic, otherworldly sacrifice and mysticism of Christianity and the torture and execution of the Inquisition of the Dark and Middle Ages. If they did, we wouldn't have a country for anyone.
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