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What's our greatest threat?

Posted by Herb7734 10 years, 2 months ago to Ask the Gulch
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Imagine two guys at a 4th of July picnic, after imbibing a bit too much, and laughing too much, the conversation gets serious. The guys names are Hector and Dewey, and here's an edited version of their conversation:
Hector asks, "What is the greatest threat facing the United States today? Dewey replies, "As I see it, there are three. One radical Islam, two the Chinese, three those knuckleheads in congress." Hector says, "Wrong, not even close. Here's the answer. The gravest threat facing the United States comes from within, when our best people refuse to get involved. When the men and women we need to fight those threats you mentioned -- radical Islam -- China, stay on the sidelines. That's our greatest threat."
Excerpted from "The Refuge" by Ben Coes.
So...what does the Gulch think? What is the U.S.'s greatest threat?


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    Posted by BrettRocketSci 10 years, 2 months ago
    I think it's worse than people taking liberty for granted or being apathetic. It's being reduced to such a state of ignorance and obliviousness that most people aren't even aware that they are ignorant and apathetic! Even worse, many people are content, even proud about it.
    I wish I could put into words the essence of the threat, but it's definitely internal. Instead of worrying about others trying to destroy our freedoms and lives from the outside, we ought to be urgently concerned about us forgetting what it means to be the land of the free and the home of the brave.
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    Posted by $ kddr22 10 years, 2 months ago
    Per Ayn Rand in a quote from this site."Today, intelligence is neither recognized nor rewarded, but is being systematically extinguished in a growing flood of brazenly flaunted irrationality." seems to fit most of the reasons given...
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
      Old dino has watched just that get worse and worse through the years.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
        True.
        This year, they have come up with a name for it: "Low information voters." In a ruder way, Morons who vote.
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        • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 1 month ago
          I was explaining that to my step-grandson yesterday at lunch... I pointed out that a very low percentage of voters held Congress in esteem, while well over 90% of Congress keeps getting re-elected.

          He, at first, didn't believe me, but after a short google, discovered that the average approval rating, from multiple sources, was in the 10-15% range and the re-election rate was close to 95%.

          So, I asked him... "what does that tell you?"
          I suggested that the answer to the proverbial question of "what's wrong with Congress" really should be redirected as "What Wrong With The Electorate?"

          Next challenge... exposing him to non-left-wing Economics.

          :)
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  • Posted by philosophercat 10 years, 2 months ago
    The greatest threat is not what we argue about but that we cant argue at all. I just attended a philosophy conference where everyone patted themselves on the back for adopting an idea called "epistemic community". It says that oppressed groups will have their own way of knowing the truth so they will not be oppressed by logic, reason, and science. Feminists, LGBTQ, and Christians will all have their own "way" of finding the truth which everyone else will have to respect as equally valid. This is so the oppressed communities will feel good about reaching no conclusions but having lots of feelings. They intend to drop reason and use political power to gain "community" goals. The students here are paying $75,000 a year and all white rich articulate future leaders. The problem is resolved by Ayn Rand's theory of universals and concept formation. They fear that there will be true statements independent of their feelings. You cant argue with them, they cant use words they just have feelings and they don't like you.
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    • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 2 months ago
      and they called it a philosophy conference? . that in itself
      is reason enough for laughter, and then heavy concern!!! -- j
      .
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      • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 1 month ago
        Yes, and OUR minority is fucked.
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        • Posted by $ Terraformer_One 10 years, 1 month ago
          Understand WHY galt built his Gulch - as a refuge from crazy; a place to regroup and strategize the next campaign.

          Attitude is important, you need to find those silent suffering individuals and their family and remind them that the gathering storm clouds will disperse and the sun will shine once again.
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          • Posted by plusaf 10 years, 1 month ago
            I understand the 'refuge' part, but my takeaway was that the Gulch would be a haven for the Producers while the Outside World collapsed and imploded, with the assumption that the 'public' would recognize the need and benefit of the Gulch's philosophies and eventually welcome them 'out' again.

            Attitude is important, YES, but do you see ANY signals that 'the public' is ANYWHERE NEAR changing their mind about the increasing 'need' for government controls? F'revvin' Sakes, there's a Socialist running under the Democratic banner!

            I don't think we're anywhere near being Anywhere Near that 'terminal phase' yet... Do you?
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  • Posted by Abaco 10 years, 2 months ago
    I have decided to go Galt rather than stand and fight. There's a difference. I don't think we can stop it.
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    • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
      We cant stop millions of people intent on entitlement that others pay for. I think Romney was right when he said 47% wanted freebies. I think its higher now. I see it everywhere. Our last chance to slow this down is Trump and his ideas of running the country as a business. It wont stop it completely, and Trump isnt an Ayn Rand by any stretch- BUT the others in the "race" are far worse with Sanders leading the pack, closely followed by Hillarious and Biden. On the Repub side the best (but unelectable) is Rand Paul, followed by Trump (possibly electable), Carson (except for the religious nonsense he spouts). The rest are just not worth considering at all. In my humble opinion.
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      Galt had a purpose. What's yours -- besides admitting defeat?
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      • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
        I am definitely not a Galt. I have way too many flaws. I am admitting defeat in that I realize that with my abilities and resources I cannot hope to convince enough people to actually get this country back on track in the time I have left. For my self interest, I want to slow the drift into socialism and cultural destruction in the USA so I have the rest of MY life before the country implodes. That means try to get the least bad people into positions of power.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          I don't think any one individual can stir the people in a certain direction. History has proved me wrong when I look at the rise of dictators from Napoleon to Hitler and beyond. However, it does seem that only evil people can turn a nation into a unified force.
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          • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
            Very interesting thought. It does seem that evil takes hold faster and harder than good. Perhaps that is because a good leader encourages the people to better them selves through work, whereas the evil leader promises to do that (to at least his followers) without any work on the part of the supporters.
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            • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
              Patriotism can be a two bladed sword. In Germany, they were still suffering the humiliation and hard times after losing WW1. Adolph appealed to their egos and used the Jews as a scapegoat so that the blame wasn't their fault but were manipulated by the eeevil Jews. An evil person's personal ambitions disguised by patriotism and an installation of superiority.

              Rand showed that the two most corrosive types can be represented by the mystic and the Hun. Hitler did it through the Hun as they rolled out the drums of war. The radical Islamists have both. They act as Huns and justify it through their religion (mystic).
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              • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
                Good analysis. Bush used patriotism to get us into war with Iraq (which really was isolated and contained even with Saddam there). Obama used patriotism to unleash the wave of federal reserve money printing and ram obamacare through. Its sick. I dont even listen to the trash the politicians put out now. I want Trunp for 4 years to tell us when the emperor has no clothes
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      • Posted by Abaco 10 years, 1 month ago
        To ensure the well-being of my family, and to make money. Honestly, if I didn't have kids my concern would only be about 15% it is now. And, you make many good points, Herb.

        I must admit that I actually feel heartbreak over what I see happening out here in California, in terms of the destruction of freedom. But, it's starting to sprout in other states...like mushrooms on my lawn in the winter...
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          I lived in California for a number of years. It is unrivaled for sheer beauty. I loved living in San Diego, but I saw the handwriting on the wall. Looking to the future, because of taxes and other higher prices, I felt that I was losing my retirement. It took us 3 years to sell our condo, but we moved to Florida before it was sold. Why Florida? Three reasons: No state income tax, much lower cost of property ownership, and most importantly...grandchildren live here.
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  • Posted by rkarlberg 10 years, 2 months ago
    Good point. Even Atlas Shrugged does not address this issue - people like Rearden and Galt want to create, not waste their time in politics. I wonder how can we ever get better people elected?
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    • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
      Maybe the answer is to get FEWER people elected in a smaller government which cant take from one and give to another.
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      • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
        The original intent of the Founders was a Federal Government that was incidental to the people or perhaps a necessary evil. Elections were held in November after the harvest. Congress was to spend 6 weeks or so in D.C. and then go home. The Supremes had six weeks or so to settle the questions relating to the constitution and the executives had to stay year 'round. But as you can plainly see, it quickly grew away from this until today, the Founders probably wouldn't recognize what they had wrought.
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        • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
          They knew government was intrinsically evil, and should be contained. But they also recognized that it tends to spiral out of control, and it certainly has. I suspect its too late to roll it back now, with so many people dependent on the dole. With the NSA powers now, its hard for the populace to even revolt in any substantial way without being labeled a terrorist (like Snowden?)
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    • Posted by wmiranda 10 years, 2 months ago
      We need to have term limits at all national level political position (congress, senate and Supreme Court). We have created a royalty class by allowing politicians to keep positions over 8-12 years. I think they should serve, get reelected one more term if deserving and then get the hell out of government.
      REARDEN FOR PRESIDENT 2016!
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      • Posted by $ dballing 10 years, 1 month ago
        I'm torn on term limits.

        Term limits - ultimately - are one group of people telling another group of people "you can't be trusted to decide for yourself who you want representing you."

        What we need is to elect people who don't plan to stick around (I'm thinking for instance of NY Congressman Chris Gibson, who always said "I'm going to be in Congress, at most, X terms" (I can't remember how many it was) and a few days after his Xth term started, he announced he would not seek re-election)
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          The problem is that public service was never meant to be a career. You put in some time, a couple of months a year for two or four or six years and then you went home and took care of your real business. The pay was nominal at best. In 200 years that has changed to where it is now an industry. Most of the congress is comprised of people who can think of nothing else but getting re-elected. They will say and do almost anything in order to foster that agenda. Doing their actual job is a side effect and bother.
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    • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 2 months ago
      Pipe dream. All who have ever run for office get corrupted once in office if they weren't corrupt to begin with which i suspect is the case 99.9 percent of the time. Any person with a desire to be self sufficient as the characters you mention would not ever consider a civil servant job. Those who do are the looters as we have seen for well over 200 years in the usa and the rest of the world.
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  • Posted by D_E_Liberty 10 years, 2 months ago
    "All evil needs to succeed is for good men to look the other way." If you are not fighting the problem you are by definition a freeloader - a spectator to the fight for your own freedom. Those who don't fight for it, don't deserve it.
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  • Posted by $ DriveTrain 10 years, 1 month ago
    This is an inherently depressing subject given the state of contemporary America, but the root of all of the problems we face is something Peikoff identified in "Ominous Parallels" (likely elsewhere too, but that's the most comprehensive discussion of it that I remember.) Namely: the corruption of education.

    His assessment is doubly discouraging, and I think it's true: "We're arguably beyond the point of no return," I think is how he put it. That was in 1982, well before the whole toxic infusion of "PC" thought-policing and what it's done to an already-degraded condition in American education, so it's gotten much worse since.

    The reason we have Obama in office, the reason we have a Congressload of unprincipled buffoons (they too went to school at some point - well, presumably,) the reason we're on the threshold of American cities getting incinerated by Iranian nukes, the reason we've got a burgeoning electronic revolution whose obliteration of the right to personal privacy is vastly outpacing its legitimate, positive aspects - is because we have multiple generations of people, arguably approaching a majority, who are educated in unmitigated intellectual poison.

    It's a comparatively non-sexy issue, but a top priority of the incoming Republican President should be an aggressive, radical separation of government from education. Which means that this person will have to be someone of extraordinary courage, someone utterly unfazed by momentary tsunamis of opposition. And of course, this person would have to be capable of recognizing that this is a key danger to begin with. 'Not so sure such a person exists, but maybe we can train one.
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    • Posted by $ Terraformer_One 10 years, 1 month ago
      Send a memo on the issue along with a copy of the book to Donald Trump's campaign.

      Donald seems willing to mention issues that the others are afraid of.
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      • Posted by $ DriveTrain 10 years, 1 month ago
        I don't expect political dilettante Trump to be in the campaign much longer than the end of the year. Hopefully he'll re-evaluate his party affiliation and bail before Halloween, and do the GOP a massive favor.

        I do not consider him a serious candidate, and I do not think anyone with an interest in reclaiming Constitutional governance and individual liberty should consider him a serious candidate either.

        But that's an entirely different topic.
        .
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  • Posted by $ jlc 10 years, 2 months ago
    Complacency.

    Irregardless of who has been in power, our lives just keep chuffing along: We hit the switch and the lights turn on. We adjust the thermostat, and magic heat or cool come out of the wall. We drive our cars, watch our TV, play games on our computers, read.

    There is nothing that touches our everyday lives that gives us something to fight about. Sometimes we even 'make up things' so that we can have a cause worth fighting for (feminism; black lives matter), but the truth of the matter is that we live in a lotus land of affluence; even the people we label as poor have a better life than Alfred the Great or Ramses.

    We are happy lobsters in a pot of slowly warming water, and we do not notice the increase of heat.

    Jan
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  • Posted by johnpe1 10 years, 2 months ago
    contemporary arrogance -- the sense that "we know better
    than those folks in the past because we are here and not there."
    this is derived directly from page xvii of "Liberty's Secrets"
    by Joshua Charles, which I am reading. . many members
    of the U.S.A. are so self-absorbed that they think nothing
    of history and its lessons, thus rendering the wisdom
    of our founders "secrets." . the demise of the nation
    hangs in the balance. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by peterchunt 10 years, 2 months ago
    I believe our greatest threat is ignorance. We get the government that we vote for, but the majority of people don’t know or it appears to want to know what the issues are. If they vote, it is a reflex condition, but one out of ignorance not knowledge. I recall seeing an article by Thomas Sowell which basically stated that we need to abolish the universal right to vote, and only allow people who are smart enough to know the issues to be able to vote. He points out that Hitler got elected by popular vote but from an uninformed electorate.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 10 years, 2 months ago
    collapse of govt-induced fraudulent finance system...not a question of "if" but "when"...and how to survive it...
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      I don't think that there will be a way to survive it. If the money is no good, even gold and silver will lose much of their value. Probably owning useable stuff that people will trade for might work. Money-wise, we'll have to start over from scratch. Anyone know if any Knights Templar are left?
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 10 years, 2 months ago
    A very intelligent relative of mine always changes the topic if I mention the fraud of "Global Warming" to him. He fears either that he cannot handle the math and science, or else that it would contradict what his left-wing econaut buddies tell him is Established Truth that none dare oppose. Maybe both.

    He's not alone. "Threat? What threat? There's nothing to worry about as long as I get my government check."
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    • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
      For Ecofreaks, "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" is more religion than science. And you know how pissed people can get when you question their religion.
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      • Posted by bsmith51 10 years, 1 month ago
        If you argue the point, they always characterize you as some voodoo witch doctor who denies science.
        But science isn't the object of dissension. It is how government corrupts science by paying researchers to support alarmist theories that would require massive government intervention.
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        • Posted by 10 years, 1 month ago
          The creating of research that becomes institutionalized without ever finding a cure -- such as cancer research. If a cure was ever found, half the research grants would disappear. This nation has become a "Ship of Fools."
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      • Posted by bsmith51 10 years, 1 month ago
        If you argue the point, they always characterize you as some voodoo witch doctor who denies science.
        But science isn't the object of dissension. It is how government corrupts science by paying researchers to support alarmist theories that would require massive government intervention.
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  • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
    GREATEST threat is the destruction of our currency. Its the underpinning of pretty much everything in the USA. Currency gets destroyed by deficit spending and money printing by the Federal Reserve. Solution is to get RID of the federeal reserve and make it impossible for the federal government to just print its way out of profligate spending. I would vote for this tomorrow.
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  • Posted by wiggys 10 years, 2 months ago
    Those who have been elected to serve the people who elected them. They have destroyed the educational system so we are seeing people get older but not growing up. They have been destroying the capitalist economic system so those who have knowledge and desire to do things are not doing anything. I think I can go on and on as many of you can pointing out what the elected servants have done to destroy the country but it is depressing. So the number one enemy of the country is the government of the country.
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  • Posted by gerstj 10 years, 2 months ago
    Obama and his radical American hating values including Muslim supremacists agents.
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    • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
      Obama is a piece of work. If Putin would switch sides and consider the USA the fatherland, I would rather have HIM as president than Obama. A sad state of affairs when a citizen of the USA would rather have the president of Russia as leader...
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years, 1 month ago
        To sum it up. Putin did Obama's job for him. Once again absenteeism. Given the leftist stance of the government with it's single party system why not invite Putin to run for office? Not born here? Big Deal that's the old Constitution. What does that have to do with reality?
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        • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
          Putin would never give up his position as the savior of Russian fatherland. I was just noting that Putin sticks up for Russia, and Obama doesnt stick up for USA.
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      • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years, 2 months ago
        Wow, that's an eye opener!
        Come to think of it, me too!
        +1!
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        • Posted by term2 10 years, 2 months ago
          Maybe we should pose that as a question to the gulchers- which would you rather have as president, Obama as he is, or Putin if he swtiched sides and considered USA as the fatherland
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          • Posted by 10 years, 2 months ago
            Be careful about Putin. Obama is such a bad president that he gets folks thinking about Putin. Putin is a KGB thug. The press seems to be afraid to put forth the huge amount he has killed either directly or by proxy. His ambitions for world domination has no limits and where he detects weakness, he moves in aggressively. This may a strong leader, but not when it come to freedom of any kind.
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            • Posted by term2 10 years, 1 month ago
              Its never going to happen, so its not a matter of actually voting in Putin. Obama is guilty for pursuing expansionist plans also, and killing thousands of people too. Look at his attack on Snowden- you can tell that he would have put Snowden in a deep dark cell for the rest of his life. Obama is a bad person interested in power only, just like Putin actually.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 2 months ago
    I agree that the greatest threat is people taking liberty for granted, as if it were the default state for humanity and having quotes about liberty on monuments and our passports were enough.

    Radical Islam is not even on my radar of serious threats. I wouldn't call the Chinese gov't a direct threat, but it's a bad situation to have a trading partner with such a bad record on liberty.
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  • Posted by $ Terraformer_One 10 years, 1 month ago
    As a non-American my grasp of your history may be 'sketchy'.

    Was it the battle of Lexington when Americans fought the British with unconventional tactics?

    The British forces were too strong to take on directly, but we're worn down over time.

    Have scouts observe what the opposition, reality obfuscating lefties, have wrought and reverse engineering of their pathetic scheme.
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  • Posted by SantomR 10 years, 1 month ago
    The greatest threat to the US is idealism. A greedy and power mad idealist is the worst. Some say that 50% of Americans are now greedy power mad idealists. This idealism is based on hatred of anyone who has a better position on the economic ladder due through his or her own success. There are other types of idealists, those who want to solve every problem in the universe - immediately - and do not care what the cost is. These are also dangerous but not nearly as much a threat to us as the greedy power hungry idealist.
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