Fact and Value

Posted by random 8 years, 2 months ago to Philosophy
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I agree completely with “On Sanctioning the Sanctioners,” Peter Schwartz’s article in the last issue of TIA. That article has, however, raised questions in the mind of some readers. In particular, David Kelley, one of the persons whom the article implicitly criticizes, has written an articulate paper in reply, identifying his own philosophy on the relevant topics. He has sent a copy of this paper to me and to many other individuals.

In my judgment, Kelley’s paper is a repudiation of the fundamental principles of Objectivism. His statements make clear to me, in purely philosophic terms and for the first time, the root cause of the many schisms that have plagued the Objectivist movement since 1968. The cause goes to the essentials of what Objectivism is. I have, therefore, decided to interrupt my book on Objectivism in order to name this cause once and for all.

In the following, I am presupposing a basic knowledge of Ayn Rand’s ideas. I am writing to and for Objectivists, whether or not they have seen Kelley’s paper.

Read Fact and Value: http://www.peikoff.com/essays_and_art...


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  • Posted by $ puzzlelady 8 years, 2 months ago
    "Fact and Value" is vintage Peikoff at his shrillest, most dogmatic, totalitarian best, with tortured logic and quick-draw condemnation of anything that includes even a molecule of insight not included in his original writ. Sigh. He would have all brains frozen at the point Rand had reached, no original thoughts allowed.

    Such cold, hostile, contemptuous, suspicious and dictatorial an atmosphere for human relationships is anti-value. The way Peikoff sketches his version of Objectivism, its reality is joyless, tense, fearful, even paranoid. He is the one who has turned gold into a lead chain around the minds and hearts of his adherents.

    And he is so shackled into his role as guardian of the legacy that he cannot see that Kelley has rescued Ayn Rand's philosophy from Peikoff's rigor mortis to bring it into the light of life, reason, achievement and happiness. Thank you, David.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 2 months ago
    Moral Judgement is Imperative.

    The mere tolerance of the rejection of reality, of life and it's effects upon others; willing or unwilling, knowing or unknowing, capable or incapable of the accounting for the outcome; not just to the one, but to all, is evil, disorder, a form of max entropy and will eventually lead to disorder and chaos.

    Kant, and the left lead their perversions from a rejection of absolute right and wrongs.
    There are inherently rights and wrongs built in to creation itself.
    They lack the mind or the will to know them.

    These are the creatures I identify in my work as parasitical humanoids; devoid of conscience, a mind and are just a body with only a brain.

    Funny...until now, I didn't think this was an objective truth.

    Thank you, Carl
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The lead to this thread contains the following: "In the following, I am presupposing a basic knowledge of Ayn Rand’s ideas. I am writing to and for Objectivists, whether or not they have seen Kelley’s paper." The link is to an article written by Leonard Peikoff.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    who's passing personal remarks now?

    Do you really think Leonard Peikoff would be asking for a source? He spent more than half his life with Miss Rand,
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It has been logged in my memory for such a long time ... Since the 1970's I have thought of myself as a "student of Objectivism" and never as an Objectivist because of her remark, but I do not have the source at hand. If I can recall it specifically I'll let you know Leonard.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Long ago, in one of her lectures, she expressed the idea that she was the only one who could call herself "Objectivist." All the rest of us who have an interest in her philosophy are "students of Objectivism." That certainly includes me. If Peikoff is claiming to be an Objectivist, he is violating her explicit rule about everyone else being a 'student' of her philosophy. And is not one of the things good students do is ask questions?
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 2 months ago
    So, random is actually Peikoff. Why does he hide behind the pseudonym 'random'?
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Where is the original paper Kelly wrote "identifying his own philosophy on the relevant topics" and which he sent copies of to Leonard Peikoff and others?
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ayn Rand did not advocate developing a different philosophy in the name of her own philosophy. Her philosophy has a content that she explained in detail, and that is the philosophy she called "Objectivism" and which she advocated with complete integrity. Understanding philosophical principles and why they are true and then applying them is not religious dogma.

    The "use of the word schism or attribution of evil to legitimate arguments" is not the cause of a lack of "larger audience". You can believe whatever you like and read whatever you like. It doesn't allow someone who doesn't understand what she wrote and contradicts much of it to be "90% Objectivism" because he has convinced himself that he has derived a philosophy "from first principles".
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Environmentalism is not about avoiding peeing in your drinking water.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ayn Rand stated her major philosophical influences. In particular she gave major credit to Aristotle and explained the nature of the influence. She did not claim her new philosophy was Aristotle's, which it is not.

    She recognized that she was challenging all the major philosophical tenants that have become widely accepted and very much rejected those who tried to compromise in the name of her philosophy. Those who resent that are still personally attacking her and Leonard Peikoff for retaining their integrity. That is not a "'told you so' from a frustrated parent" or "because I say so". Those who want to rewrite Ayn Rand should simply go elsewhere and do whatever they do in their own name.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Who goes around promoting a "seven virtues Rand list" like a local preacher or promoter? Ayn Rand identified six major virtues as derivatives or aspects of the primary virtue of rationality. There can't be an ethical theory without explaining virtue. The major virtues of the Objectivist ethics are not listed as duties of the Seven Commandments or mindless slogans to follow. She went to great lengths to explain the nature, requirement, and purpose of ethics in human life.

    Ayn Rand's philosophy has a content. It does not just say go out and "be independent", or "be rational", or "have common sense". It advocates fundamental principles to be applied in one's life through understanding of the reasons for them -- not go cook up whatever you want to in the name of "independence" contradicting what is known and in the name of her philosophy regarded as "open" to whatever you want it to mean.

    The six aspects of rationality she identified and explained as basic are independence, integrity, honesty, justice, productiveness, and pride. Which ones are you "not a fan of"?

    The detailed, systematic explanation and illustration of the primary virtues are in her "The Objectivist Ethics" and Atlas Shrugged, and Leonard Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.

    Leonard Peikoff explained the nature of the virtues in detail and systematically. After seven chapters preceding and establishing the basis for the one on "Virtue", he began:

    "'Rationality' is a broad abstraction. Now we must learn more fully how to apply it to the concrete choices of human life. We must study the derivative virtues (and values) recognized by the Objectivist ethics.

    "Since these virtues are expressions of rationality, they are logically interconnected, both in theory and in practice. None can be validated in isolation, apart from the others; nor can a man practice any one of them consistently while defaulting on the others. In defining a series of virtues, Ayn Rand is abstracting, separating out for purposes of specialized study elements of a single whole. What she seeks to clarify by this means, however, is the whole. The Objectivist ethics upholds not disconnected rules, but an integrated way of life, every aspect of which entails all the others..."

    "... Ayn Rand defines six major derivatives of the virtue of rationality... [she] did not regard this list as necessarily exhaustive or the order of its items as logically mandatory. Her concern was not to cover every application of virtue, but to identify the essentials of rationality in the most important areas and aspects of human life. This is the minimum moral knowledge needed by a man if he seeks to follow reason consistently, as a matter of principle, in his daily choices and actions..."

    The difference between her ethics and an ethics prescribing "duties", as in religion and Kant, are explained in her "Causality Versus Duty" in Philosophy: Who Needs It and in the chapter "The Good" in Leonard Peikoff's Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand.
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  • Posted by ewv 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    How can assessing your needs and the circumstances in deciding the value of something not be objective? You are confusing objective with intrinsic.
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