I have never been in a union. (The first attempt to unionize medical technologists ended when the putative organizers absconded with the funds. For some reason, the profession has not been receptive to the idea since then.) But, reading history, it seems to me that unions are a lot like acne. They arise when you have a particular set of maturation conditions in effect: A population that is not easily mobile and which has few skills is being abused by their employers because they are a captive audience and have no alternatives.

A union inverts this structure and makes it evident to the employer that they too have no alternative but to treat their employees better.

Once alternatives are available to both the employer and the employee, a union is a parasitic attachment whose purpose is to falsely maintain no-alternatives structure. It does this to the loss of both sides, I think. I do know of two people who have worked union/non-union and both of them are firmly pro-union, however. Perhaps there is some benefit I am missing.

Jan

Not entirely accurate... Many industries require a lot of capital to operate safely... others don't, in fact the government makes those easy with small-biz set asides for government professional services contracts for example. Would you want the local mom & pop shop with $25k in capital to open a coal mine on the property behind your house and start drilling with whatever crap-equipment they can buy for $150? Do you think that petro or coal extraction for that matter would be remotely-safe without some regulation? Society has a vested interest in safe operation of industry, because when workers are hurt, we end up supporting them through disability / social security / etc.

I'm not a liberal either, but I am extremely successful in business... and I've worked in many industries. "barriers to entry" are just cliches from the same politicians being criticized in the same breath about over-regulation... Would you prefer to have an unregulated banking system? Or maybe a lack of real estate land titles... so we would be like every other third-world banana republic with warlords running their feudal havens? Maybe each state should just coin its own money? How about if we issue health insurance policies like a car warranty with 50 pages of 6-point fine print, and a specific list of which diseases are covered, and which ones are not and it's up to you (the buyer) to do your own genetic research on what you will likely have in life...

Over-regulation can be bad, obviously, but is there really something wrong with prohibiting child labor... or outlying segregated schools based on skin color (which was very much a part of this story).

Even now, we live in one of the most affluent areas in northern California, and when we first moved in 11 years ago, our neighbor - some 80 year old white bag knocked on the door, my wife answered, and she asked "if the woman of the house is home" - my wife said "I am", and the old bag said "no, I mean the wife of the owner, not the housekeeper". We slammed the door and never talked to the old b*tch again. This was in 2004 by the way.

So what's the minimum wage for the children (of the farm workers), also forced to work in the fields?

By the way... California farmers are notoriously inefficient... machinery... almost non-existent.. it's all hand-labor. They don't really even bother with irrigation systems, just dig big 3 & 5 foot trenches and shoot the water through those and whatever soaks into the ground or evaporates off... oh well... perfect for a state with serious water supply problems... Now they are crying about not getting enough water deliveries, when they have also never bothered to efficiently irrigate their land either..

Wow... amazing the level of inept understanding of what was going on. Farmers were not required (and many did not) even provide fresh drinking water in the fields... or latrines... the thinking was that if they didn't have anything to drink, they wouldn't have to pee very often either.

Working conditions were terrible, temperatures were 110 to 115 typically (I live here in the California Central Valley), there were no bathrooms and a many-mile walk to use one, but they were also prohibited for health reasons of relieving themselves in the field, so many had gastro problems from going all day without being able to defecate.

You are also assuming these were all adult males, they were not, these were entire families employed. My wife's family was contracted and taken to a farm in Davis, CA when she was 7 years old, and she and her parents worked in the fields. During the winter months, she did go to school instead (as it was the law, but not the choice of the farmer), and she earned scholarships to private schools and eventually graduated with an engineering degree and a scholarship from NASA. Nothing was easy for her though. Her family lived in a plywood shack for migrant farmers on the farm without running water or sewer, only outhouses. She generally couldn't bathe to be clean at school, so it was very easy to identify & segregate the migrant children. I've seen where she grew up as a little girl, reminded me very much of the slave housing on plantations in the South, in many ways, it was worse, as it was definitely not intended as permanent housing... just flat-roofed plywood sheds, basically, and an entire family in each one of them.

Did they have work, when there was nothing for them in Mexico? Yes. But we are Americans, we can do much better than that.

California has many ills in its past... like how we "conveniently" interned Japanese-descended farmers during WWII, many with hundreds or thousands of acres and had been here for generations... and "auctioned" the land to well-hooked-up political families... many of the strawberry fields of the central coastal lands for instance..

How about the deed to a 1925 rental house that my wife and I owned..? The CC&R's indicated "This is a white-only neighborhood, blacks, latinos, " etc. " are strictly prohibited from owning or occupying any parcel of land." It was a row-house in downtown Sacramento.

I love Reagan for his presidency... but as a governor, many forget that he argued to the California Supreme Court on behalf of a major (agricultural) donor that a ketchup packet adequately met the state's requirement for "fruit" in a daily school lunch.

Cesar Chavez was less about unionization, than about human rights... many of what he led the workers to demand were conditions less than what the United States was demanding of foreign countries to treat their own people... actually...

This was before social media, before the Internet, and many in the program were minimally educated. They had no idea, and couldn't read about, the conditions that awaited them when they signed the labor contracts. They also couldn't leave, and were forced to watch their family work in the fields and suffer in filthy conditions. How do you do that as a man and a father?

I'd recommend watching the documentary about Cruz Reynoso, (my wife's uncle actually), that was made by PBS and documented his life... Cruz was originally a farm worker, went to law school and became Cesar Chavez's attorney, and eventually became a California Supreme Court Justice and was short-listed / vetted for the US Supreme Court. He talks very plainly about the challenges, the strife of the time, and the oppression of the people - generally born out of racism and extreme greed.

Ever noticed how farmers tend to oppress peoples? Ever see any slaves in US history "outside" of a farm? Not many... I don't buy that "nobility" in farming crap myself. My wife and I have been fortunate to be successful and "2%'ers" through hard work, education, and working for ourselves.. not oppressing other people.

http://www.vidaenelvalle.com/2011/09/21/...

Love your style!

Regulation is force imposed on industries which often cannot anticipate what or when it will strike. The larger the company, the easier the absorption. Make no mistake regulation does not create wealth it diverts and most often costs jobs. It creates barriers to entry for small busisness. Regulations are developed and imposed by govts which are notorious for their ineptitude at understanding free markets. Often the largest companies in an industry lobby for increased regulation as a way to push out smaller competitors. The best to be said is some are necessary evils. But they are all inherently anti capitalism.

Chavez was deliberately recruited by the Communist party. He was taken to Chicago and studied under Alinsky 's Radicals for Revolution program for six years. He was purposely sent back to the region to agitate and disrupt. The workers weren 't desirous of the union. In fact they were disrupted. http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/pol...

I'd suggest you spend a few years working in a industry under union control (and it is about control) then spend a equal amount of time working in a similar business minus the union.

After that little test you can tell me how you feel.

Since I have done both, I feel properly positioned to give my observations. In the interest of saving time, I'll just say unions suck. Unions are a small taste of communism.

When I was running my construction firm in ElPaso TX, we were a nonunion shop. We were not a union shop. Any of my employees who wanted to unionize were free to go look for work elsewhere. TX is a right to work state and I interpreted that as you have a right to be in a union or you have a right to work, if I tell you I want your services.

Since I paid more than the local union wage rates, had better benefits for my men and took care of them, they stood by me.

In my office I kept several firearms and since my shop was outside the city in the desert east of the city we had the perk of a small shooting range in back of the shop. All of us were welcome to use it as long as work was done. So at any moment, I might be found cleaning a pistol in my office.

One hot July day the local BA, business agent (union thug) decided that I'd been a nonunion shop long enough and rounded up another muscle builder type from the hall to "lean" on me. After parking outside my lot (10 acres surrounded by 8' chainlink fence with barbed wire top, one truck gate, one walk gate) and walking past two No Trespassing" signs to enter the walk gate that was a double gat with 8' space between and another warning about armed guards, they came strolling into my office like they owned it. I had a gun rack behind me and on my desk was a 1911 torn down that I was cleaning.

After he introduced himself and the thug he proceeded to tell me that my men wanted to unionize, but when I asked him which man, he ony knew the first name of the guy who showed him to my office - who hated unions worse than I did. As he was telling me how things were going to change and that I'd not be taking advantage of my men like I had been and so on. The entire time he was talking, I kept cleaning my 45 and then assembled it. As he was finishing I finished assembling the pistol and slid a full mag into it, racked the slide and set the safety. After that I set it over to the side (not pointing at them or me) and pulled up the double barreled shotgun I kept under my desk, opening it, removing the slug rounds I kept in it and started cleaning it.

As I did that I called the four men who were in the shop into my office and I asked them if they wanted a union, which they said no to. As I dismissed them to go back to work, I told the BA that they didn't want to unionize because if they did they'd lose far too much. At this point I pulled out a fresh box of shells and reloaded the old side by side and closed it up and slid it back into it's holster under my desk.

Next I took down a AR15, unloaded it, and started to inspect it. It had not been shot, but in that dusty environment you need to keep your maintance up, As I reloaded it and had it in my hands I looked up at them and said, "Oh, you're still here. Do you need help finding your way out?" He said "no" and they left with far more haste than when they arrived.

Unions exist to feed on the soft under belly of society and are only separated from the mafia by legal recognition. In the six years I operated that shop no employee ever had a bad word about how they were treated. They were well paid, but I was paid better and had a standing offer then on any day if they felt they could do my job better and can prove it to my, the job was theirs. When we left there 16 years ago I sold the business to my lead man and even financed it for him - a loan he paid back early

It's still not a union shop.

Bingo

How were they mistreated? They wanted more money but there were workers willing to take their place. Are you capitalist or not? Sheesh those communist meetings are rubbing off on you. We need to do an intervention

Yes

Actually it looks like an interesting assignment to me, provided the teacher doesn't introduce his/her own bias as to what they want to hear. What grade level? What else did they learn in class before and after the assignment?

The bracero system seemed to be working pretty well in California when I first came here fifty years ago. There are certain skills required even for menial jobs and the growers preferred experienced workers and paid them more. Most were able to send money home where it went a lot farther. There were labor contractors arranging for legal guest workers then, not coyotes and illegals like now.

I'd like to see them all myself.... My son raised his hand today while the teacher was giving a power point presentation to the class and asked if Chavez was a communist. The teacher said, "Um...no comment". Somebody else said, "That's a yes."

I found that in the Chavez page, "Force" is the operative word. The second, there are unskilled, presumably, workers, happy to be working, not living at the Ritz, but again, glad to have a job, at a family farm, which is going to be limited in scope, as its not a huge commercial operation.
This is wonderful emotional fanning. Lets get kids worked up over "unfair". Life isn't fair. It takes brains and keeping ones wits about them, to make rational decisions. All if these jobs are at will. I cannot wait to read what is turned in!

The bracereo people were legally here, they weren't mistreated, adn they never demanded a damn thing from America except their fair wage before returning home. You see, I enjoy history, and I know about that too. Chavez was against the bracereo's and illegal aliens because they drove down he wage. His vocal opposition to illegal aliens and day workers would have made him the one pointing out the skin color. Again you imply meaning. I write exactly what I mean 90% of the time so there is no need.

How were the workers mistreated by the farmer? People aren't responsible for themselves or their own happiness? That's the employers job? "Kept poor" , "force the owners..", "factory workers get paid vacation...." THEN GET A JOB AT A FACTORY! I supposed you're also for McDonald's workers making 15bucks an hour too.

All of the workers problems are presented as if the farmer is to blame. And the way to fix all of their problems is to force the farmer. But you, maph, have made it blatantly clear repeatedly that you are all for forcing business owners so I'm not surprised you missed the point.