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Solving the National Language Problem KISS works it's miracle.

Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 6 months ago to Education
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First of all the overwhelming majority speak English and the bulk of the documents, laws etc. are in English and English is the world for economics, banking, aircraft operations, ship piloting and maritime operations etc.

So divide the country into groups

1. Citizens and long time residents who speak a. English b. English and one other language. c. No English but one or more other languages.

2. Residents coming into the couontry on a work permit, immigration program something of that nature.

English number one, Spanish Number two the rest are negligible but valuable.

Methods of attacking the problem. Public schools, public schools with night classes, private schools, enlightened schools such as Berlitz Total Immersion. All the rest are stone age lump them together.

Who? Fact of life it doesn't take a language major to teacha language. It does take someone fluent in a particular langauge.

Illiterates need not apply.

The rest will sort itself out and initially perhaps with a little funding for a year or two .

Next the goals.

Everyone speaks two languages with no exceptions except those over 80 or here temporarily.

TheGovernment will not hire anyone nor accept in to the military ayone who isn't bi-lingual. That's the stick and the carrot.

Next Rule. No citizenship without complete fluency in English and one other language.

No one passes 8th grade without some foreign language training, 12th grade without at least a level two fluency a foriegn language and Level three proficiency in English. Any university degree with out a level five in English and level four in at least one foreign language.

Public schools will not be allowed to teach any subject whatsoever until the new student has gone through the English language course. Loss of credentials and public funding is the punishment. Doing their job for a change is the reward.

Now thinking I've short changed the Latinos guess which language is a. most prevalent in the western hemsiphere and b. easiest to learn. SPANISH! hint hint.

So here's Johnny Dimwit who can't get in the Army without a foreign langage and geater than valley girl grasp of what passes for English. Does he choolse Portuguese? Maybe, italian Maybe,French Maybe Russian No Chinese No. Mongolian Hell no.

But the other students will and probably some of them speak a foreign language coming into the country, English in preparation or upon arrival and then do a third and many will have three or four from the get go.

The homies have to learn English as a foreign language and back to Spanish. as the easiest one.

the unfair part but that's not my problem is the original citizens will be behind the eight ball But not draftable? No. The Army takes them they go to language school period. No pass discharged.

the other ha ha unfair part is the foreign students will zoom to the top of the pack.

The advantage is we reduce the national language need to what it truly IS Mostly English with a helluva lot of Spanish.

what do you think they will teach in Mexico or Canada? Same thing they teach now Spanish and English or Canadian and English.

That's a fracking joke.

Berlitz schools take one week for easy languages up to Russian and twoweeks for exceptionally difficult language using total immersion. The concept is simpile. Monday morning you walk in a fully furnished apartment and the teachers start rotating in. Only the subject langugae is allowed. By Saturday evening 2,000 word vocabulary comprehension speaking, reading and writing.

Where do you get the instructors? Language Departments of any college and all those educated people immigrating in country. Another blow for Spanish as the second choice.

by the way....in the westeren hemisphere HALF the world there are three major languages . Spanish, English, Portuguese.

In the other continents they number from a hundred or so to as many as a hundred iin one country. Count your blessings it's an easy fix and a great melting pot and that's the real problem. Those who want diversity to divide and control will be against it. those who want to honor the ethnic cultures and backgrounds of the world will enjoy the lerning experience of the North American Culture. If we can find where we put it.


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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 6 months ago
    Call me old fashioned, but I don't think another law is needed, especially one regarding language. Our language is American version English. Period. If you don't want to learn it, get out. If my uneducated grandparents from Poland/Russia could learn it so can everyone else. They didn't abandon their native language, they spoke with heavy accents, but they made themselves understood and without a translator. Also, it took them a while, especially my grandmother to get their citizenship papers, but they got them and were damn proud to have them. Every time I visited, Grandma would quiz me about the Constitution, and such, so I learned as she learned in order to keep up with her, since even back then, they didn't teach that stuff in school. So.. native born Americans, if you want a second language make it your option to learn it. BUT don't let the government shove it down your throat!
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  • Posted by MurraytheDog2757 9 years, 6 months ago
    "Who? Fact of life it doesn't take a language major to teacha language. It does take someone fluent in a particular langauge." Perhaps this is why if you ask a 15-year old to parse a sentence they ask you what parse means. Most could not tell a noun from a verb. One's ability to reason is reflected in the way they speak. Not a teacher myself but wife has a Master's in French from the Sorbonne and it is a bit simplistic to suggest that any native French speaker can match her skill set.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 9 years, 6 months ago
    The language of the US should be officially English. There should never ever be a bilingual requirement here. If you want to be a citizen you learn English well. No exceptions. At least that is what I believe is right.

    But it may soon be technologically irrelevant as we are quite close to real time good enough for many purposes translation by that computer in your pocket - your cell phone.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      Ah the NEA answer they don't have to know how do the problem, nor to think, they can look it up. If only they knew what to look for. Useful as an aide but as a crutch it's just a toy.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      In the beginning. People had come to what were the 13 colonies from all over the place. During the discussions on this very subject a number of languages were suggested. English of Course as well as German and Dutch. Probably, Welsh and Scots for all I remember. The choice of language to use in constructing the new country finally fell to English. Because of trade it had become lingua franca but interestingly enough the second most votes went to Greek.

      Without TV to waste their time most of the founders were both educated and multi-literate and Greece after all was the home of both the democratic form and the republic form of governments.

      Now to statistics. What need of a vote when English was spoken by 90%The only vote on the subject was 1795 it failed to do much except continue the use of English.

      The only other comment made official was all public documents shall be in the English language.

      To fully understrand the country and culture as an insider or citizen. To fully understand and assimilate and enjoy the opportunities Engish is de facto required. Anything else is to remain and outsider forever of the mercy of others.

      However, a Simmons Market Research survey recorded that 19 percent of the Hispanic American origin population speak only Spanish, 9.0 percent speak only English, 55 percent have limited English proficiency, and 17 percent are fully English-Spanish bilingual. that does not include an estimated eight million illegals - or does it. We have more Spanish speakers than Spain and less than Mexico.

      A long ways from the 10% of total people in 1776 who didn't speak English.

      However we have a strong negative movement to prevent learning English which among other goals intends to take over the five to seven southwest states. Excluding two if you said the whole USA Florida and New York each with over a million we have in the SW Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and California. New Mexico is at this point probably over 50%

      Remember the comment on controlling the Senate. Two per state. Those listed above including the influence in New York and Florida count for 20 Senators. of the 51 needed. That didn't count buying the votes of the other 31. It is one big ass voting block. IJf it wasn't for Southern California they might consider becoming a country ha ha that is a plan of La Raza who does not want English learned. Both Boxer and Fineslime are coming up for replacement and oh so PC California is likely to go latino.

      New York maybe one or one like Hillary looking for large voting blocks.

      Back to the subject.

      The founders figured with 90% speaking English why bother they had a lot on their minds back then and everything was written down in English already. So Las Griegas y Grecos y Hellenicas lost out. Florida wasn't considered nor Puerto Rico and Guam speaks Chomorro.

      Really the only reason to make it official is urban legend of a country that no longer exists. That's subjectivism it's not real life and it's not at all objective except the idea of melding together many people into one nation. Not many ini favor of that again according to urban legend.

      The rest is pure economics and a matter of education and not cheating the children out of those opportunities. And of course pride in something that doesn't exist. The time for that has passed you by. Nothing was done so deal with it. live with it you got what you asked for.

      No reason to screw anything up more than it is already and plenty of reasons to improve life, as it is, which means constitutional republic back in play, no socialism and a really goog way out of the crap pile socialism just presented us.

      I'd start by repudiating the left and trheir citizenship, confiscating their property to pay the bill for damage caused and a one way ticket to wherever they came from - regardless the number of generations,

      In the meantime we should be preparing to champion the Western Hemisphere as the lead nation and not as a sad urban legend.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 6 months ago
    Here is an interesting commentary on language and which might encompass the most words and concepts of all languages.

    That might be English...

    The reason for this is historical. English was originally a Germanic language, related to Dutch and German, and it shares much of its grammar and basic vocabulary with those languages. However, after the Norman Conquest in 1066 it was hugely influenced by Norman French, which became the language of the ruling class for a considerable period, and by Latin, which was the language of scholarship and of the Church. Very large numbers of French and Latin words entered the language. Consequently, English has a much larger vocabulary than either the Germanic languages or the members of the Romance language family to which French belongs.

    English is also very ready to accommodate foreign words, and as it has become an international language, it has absorbed vocabulary from a large number of other sources. This does, of course, assume that you ignore 'agglutinative' languages such as Finnish, in which words can be stuck together in long strings of indefinite length, and which therefore have an almost infinite number of 'words'.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      English has been well over a million for that reason and Spoanish is around 300,000 plus. They make damn good use of multiple meanngs for words though.

      For those tha tthink 2050 or close to it will not bring a time of a Spanish speaking majority the locals would simple say. Frijoles. Thanks for the assist!
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 9 years, 6 months ago
        The "Panty hose" languages nor any other languages can't express the vast array of concepts common to Conscious understanding.
        In the New Julian Jaynes book, linguist are now seeing that a lack of consciousness is due to the lack of sufficient language in most cultures. Because of that, they are considered Preliterate.

        And...to beat the band...the muslim cultures are at the top of that preliterate list...Think maybe that's why they are still barbaric in nature. Can you imagine the horror for those few that have some sort of conscience.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
    The concept of "Tribe" has been mentioned, in an attempt to support common language because we are all part of the same tribe. Well, we SHOULD be all part of the same American Tribe, but I would tend to dispute the presumption that we ARE all part of the tribe. The liberals have done a great job of turning us all into hyphenated Americans. So we are all in individual sub-tribes and not united - divide and conquer. The last time we could have been considered all one tribe was 9/12/01.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
      The marketing book Tribes is about how technology allows us to form virtual tribes with narrow interests, weird stuff like collecting antique chess games. We can find those few people down the long tail (The Long Tail is another good book) around the world who share our interests. I see no need for the tribes to hate each other. We feel that ancient out-group bias, but there's much less reason to give into it in the modern world.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
        The World Is Flat describing a leveling of the playing field due to transportation and communication advances is another great read. My favorite part was a gentleman from and working in India who scoffed at the slave labor wages charge. In our economy I am upper middle class or something close to that ...In your economy I couldn't afford Ramen. That's not a direct quote but you get the idea. What do they do?

        Factor all those VISA and MC and other such purchases. Another company did direct customer service and relations and a third did billings. All over the satellite systems. All for corporations in the USA.

        What happend to the USA employees? I think they are still on the picket lines and demanding a TrumpWall be built around the USA with tariffs to protect their jobs? What jobs. The USA company is probably now in some place like BVI.
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  • Posted by OldScar 9 years, 6 months ago
    What would happen to those (such as myself) who would refuse to learn a foreign language? Re-education camp?
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
      I do not believe learning another language should be compulsory, but should be strongly encouraged. If, in the end, you don't want to, or do not have the aptitude, that's just the way it is. However, you will miss opportunities and experiences that the language learners will get to enjoy.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      RAther bluntly stated in the first post. No grade school nor high school nor college degrees no government jobs including military. No citizenship. There are many logical extensions.

      What exemptions would be automatically provided?

      What exemptions would be considered upon application?

      Rather depends on the people operating the government at the time. Thinking of religion and government service, Quakers and George Washington they sat down together and figured out what would make two opposing positions work. Then there is the fascist way as you mentioned. But not being a leftist it doesn' t much appeal to me.

      At first glance to me the punishment is self imposed by the end of the sentence of refusal. Self limitation to be a second or third rater comes to mind. Not my problem. The problem belongs to the refuser. So does the guilt and the punishment. Moochers No :Looters no but certainly a class apart. How about Barbies.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
        It would depend on how the program was implemented Hopefully with one national standard but in fifty different ways.
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        • Posted by OldScar 9 years, 6 months ago
          Grandiose government solutions based on social engineering inevitably result in coercion. If an individual wants to learn a foreign language there are plenty of ways to do it right now without involving Big Brother.
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          • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
            Now that's the kind of answer I was looking for. Take it a step further.

            To imporove education besides dumping the Department of Education and to improve the economy from a straight business viewpoint would you see a return to both improved English and foreign languages, either one or neither?

            Since Spanish as an equal to or more spoken than English is projected to occur 2030 to 2050 depending on which google available study and that included or excludes illegals.

            A. Make English the official language now.
            B. Move toward a Canadian system including government forms and documents in both languages.
            C. with or without B add costs of staffing and printing
            D. And in the military where split second orders have not time to be given nor understood in two languages (other situations apply such as operating nuclear power plants) OK or not OK a single language?

            It's a given that by then 20-30 to 2050 or shortly after you may have no choice as it's likely an official language will be chosen for you.

            Based on the increase in Spanish speakers and decrease in English speakers and moreso in literate english speakers.

            Coupled with the PC stuff I personally see Canadian system as likely.

            Third area is if languages are returned to edcuation would you favor the same one hour a day five days a week in grade and high school and six hours three days a week in college or looking at the one week and two week systems followed by support instruction in other areas such as literature, culture of the new language.

            Fourth and now you see where I'm really going with this With Spanish number one in Western Hemisphere and increasing, English Number two and decreasing - without considering the rest of the world's hodgepodge and our decreasing influence in economic, trade, and transportation considered at what point might we consider preparing for the inevitable future?

            which is my blunt way of stating an obvious problem which will manifest itself at it's own speed.

            Enjoy the thinking and reasoning part has arrived The rest has been just to notice something and perhaps wondering about it's nature.
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
              I was hoping for as reply before the bus leaves but some after thought goes like this. It's all right to say it will never happen here that's the ostrich syndrome and it's nature is of course ostrich like. As such it should be treated as such. Irrelevant. They won't be alive but thier not so easily fooled children will be alive.

              So here's the final question. How do you want to be remembered to iyour grand children and other descendents.

              We knew the inevitable was going to happen but didn't care as long as it was after we died.

              We knew the inevitable was going to happen but decided to ignore it hoping that like the Constiutition it would shut up and go away.

              We were a strong believer in Urban Myths being unable to understand and apply the three basic laws of objectivism.

              We saw the light but did not know what to do?

              We knew what to do but the couch was more comfortable to our potato ass.

              We knew what to do and did it.

              One solution to consider is think of a new coalition. Constitutional Republic and New American Citizens. George Washington made it work and after all those that don't support the first part are really part of those who helped destroy it. Why do we owe them any support or loyallty?

              We don''t.

              Constitutional Convention?
              Amendments by a majority of Congress (Spanish Speakers)
              Spanish the official language?

              All more than very possible.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
    Interesting concept, almost sounds {shudder!} European! (Disclaimer: I am NOT a Europhyl)

    Reminds me of a joke:
    Q: What do you call someone who speaks three languages?
    A: Trilingual.
    Q: What do you call someone who speaks two languages?
    A: Bilingual.
    Q: What do you call someone who speaks only one language?
    A: American.

    When I was in high school I belonged to a club called "Lingua Honoraria". We had a motto that in Spanish was "Quien habla dos linguas vale dos hombres." For the "Amur Ricans" out there this means "Who speaks two languages is worth two men."

    My arguments for learning other languages are: 1. You learn SO much more about your own language by learning another language. I learned very little in my English classes. However, in my seven and a half years of studying Spanish, plus two years of practical experience in the barrios of Chicago, I learned a huge amount about English through a compare and contrast experience. 2. Your English vocabulary, and therefore thought process, will be expanded. 3. English has a somewhat Germanic structure. The vocabulary is a hodgepodge, but the major contributors are germanic (anglo saxon) and latin. The latin root words are typically viewed as being "higher class". Therefore, people who hear you speak subconsciously view you as higher class if you use latin based vocabulary. You learn such vocabulary learning Spanish and looking for English cognates to your new Spanish words. 4. The world is getting smaller and knowing multiple languages will give more opportunities. When I worked in the world of international shipping my Spanish fluency helped tremendously. I went to South America several times for business. For me it was no big deal; today I'm speaking English, tomorrow Spanish, not a problem. 5. Knowing only one language limits your abilities to learn and experience the world.

    So, if you want to stick with just one language, this is not a problem for me, but your life experience will be suboptimized.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
      I agree with all of this. I am proficient in Spanish. I use it to talk to software engineers in Latin America. 15 years ago people used to ask me to read Spanish e-mails and sometimes respond to them. That has decreased. On-line translators have somewhat deceased the value of being bilingual.

      I wholeheartedly agree with your five points. Regarding #5, I find it's easier to learn the very basics of a foreign language before travelling now that I know two languages. I may say to myself, "oh, this is one of those languages where they use the past participle more than the simple past if the action has been completed." Spanish has pertérito and imperfecto, but it uses haber + participle more than in English to mean almost the same thing as the pertéito. I think having that in my mind makes it easier to learn phrases and structures in other languages.
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      • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
        Los que no quieren aprender otro idioma me parecen como un chiquito quien dice "No me gusta espinaca!" Y su mamá le pregunta "Jamás has probado la?" Y el chiquito dice "Nunca!"
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
          It was like eating spinach for me, learning Spanish at age 14-- repeating models until I was sick of them. "Why do you drink that? Because that's what I like to drink." What does he write that? Because that's what he likes to write." Pretty soon I'm completely bored and associating the -s inflection with third-person singular and do with all other subjects.

          But people learn other languages for their own reasons without a government plan. I don't get all the fuss. Whenever I travel I get a basic phrase book to listen on my phone. It doesn't take a gov't plan to know that's a good idea.
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          • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
            I probably had a different motivation. When my mom was a teenager the local Spanish speaking congregation needed an organist. So she ended up going to church in Spanish for several years and picked up enough to get by. As I was growing up she would occasionally say things in Spanish and I developed a desire to learn it. My goal was to be able to pass as a native. One day in Santiago, Chile I was talking with some Chileans and Americans. We were going back and forth between English and Spanish. Another American, who was fluent in Spanish walked up while I was speaking Spanish. After a minute he asked me in Spanish if I was from Argentina. I said in English "No, I'm from California, but thanks."
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            • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
              I have a pretty clear English accent in Spanish. After a few words, people know I'm not from their region and eventually it's identifiable as an English accent. I think it's the cadence, loud s sounds and hard d sound, and my tendency to let unstressed vowels sound like the English schwa sound.

              Argentine is distinctive because of the y and ll sound and because of voseo (use of the word vos) Other countries like El Salvador have voseo, but I really notice it in Argentines.

              That's cool that someone could tell you were foreign but couldn't tell your native language.
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              • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
                Puerto Rican has a heavy Portuguese influence. Ll and Y are like a hard "J" in English. So, "Yo" is pronounced as "Joe". My professor in college learned his Castellano in Argentina. So it was not hard to soften my Ll and Y to sound more Argentine. My wife cringes when I do a gutteral Puerto Rican "rr". It sounds like, as we used to say in high school, I'm getting ready to "hawk up a lugie." The Puerto Rican "rr" is the same as the Portuguese "rr".
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
                  "Puerto Rican has a heavy Portuguese influence."
                  You mean Argentine has a heavy Portuguese influence, right?

                  Puerto Rican is one I find harder to understand because of the unstressed R's sounding like L's, the S's and fricative D's being absent, strong vowels dipthongized (lado --> la'o --> lau), and whole nasal character of it. I'm familiar with it b/c I hear it a lot on 11m (the 26-28MHz range, including CB). I guess it's an accident of history that they teach Colombian Spanish in school, and Puerto Rican sounds far-from-standard

                  I find Argentine distinctive but easily intelligible.
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                  • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
                    Nope, PR has much more Portuguese than Argentine. When both the Spaniards and Portuguese sailed across they would aim for Puerto Rico where they could resupply.
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                    • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
                      "PR has much more Portuguese than Argentine."
                      Interesting. I don't notice it, but it certainly makes sense. That's the same way Papiamentu formed, except it's a mix of Portugese, Spanish, Dutch, and African languages, and it sounds sort of like Puerto Rican.
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                      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
                        Argentine has a lot of Italian and German in certain segments of the country. Chileans say Alo or ah low instead of Oh Lah Hola as a greeting not sure how that happened it's more english in it's sound.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 6 months ago
    People are tribal by nature. Language and culture are tribal manifestations. People feel more comfortable around people in their own tribe. And there isnt anything wrong with that.

    If you move to a different tribal area, you should be expected to adopt their culture and language- otherwise why move there??

    One could over come language barriers with electronics and google translate.
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
      Studio C on youtube has a comedy sketch on online translators that overstates the potential problems. I have used online translators to go from English to Spanish when I have a large document to translate. However, I ALWAYS go through it afterwords to correct the translation because some of it comes across kind of oddly.
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 6 months ago
    What a load of bullshit! Why the hell should a native be required to learn some foreign language. The only reason would be to accommodate the dammed illegals. I say this as an immigrant myself. When you come here you should be required to learn our language....WTF is so hard to understand about that. If you don't want to do that, go the hell beck to your third world hell hole!
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    • Posted by term2 9 years, 6 months ago
      If you want to be accepted in a tribe, and USA is definitely a special tribe, you presumably moved here because you wanted membership. So learn the language. Its that simple.
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    • Posted by $ allosaur 9 years, 6 months ago
      Right on!
      Me dino just half-read half-skimmed over a lot of silly dancing around and--no, call that clowning around.
      "Payaso" is my favorite Spanish word.
      Call someone that in a Tijuana bar bar and you may gain a shrug, maybe even a middle finger.
      Call someone that in a Pittsburgh bar and someone may knock your block off.
      Yeah, yelling "payaso" really sounds bad but all it means is "clown."
      Hey, all this silly I just wrote? Someone freaking actually learned something amid all the huffing and puffing bloviation here.
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
      That sure sounds like the Longshoreman dialect of American English that I heard so much when I worked in the maritime industry.
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      • Posted by evlwhtguy 9 years, 6 months ago
        Nope...I came from England in 1967 when I was 9 years old. I live in the Carolinas. I am just sick and tired of these figging pudnockers who want to apologize reflexively for everything that they think I did and give away the country my family and I worked hard to get to and has rewarded me with an excellent life. If I wanted to move to a third world hell hole...I would have. I feel sorry for all these people that live else where, but that doesn't mean I have any obligation whatsoever to have them move in to my house and take my stuff....and that is pretty much what the guilt crowd is volunteering us all for.
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        • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
          I agree wholeheartedly. I do think it's a good thing to learn another language as an intellectual pursuit, just as I think it's a good thing to learn math and history. It has also served me well in international business. But the majority of Americans will never actually NEED another language.
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          • Posted by Suzanne43 9 years, 6 months ago
            I took French. It was rather like learning algebra and geometry, because during my life I can say that I have seldom is ever used any of the three. Oh, wait...I have used a little French when doing crossword puzzles.
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            • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
              Too bad, my Spanish has served me well, as has my algebra and geometry. Sounds like a good excuse to visit the south of France!
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              • Posted by Suzanne43 9 years, 6 months ago
                As a first and second grade teacher, I loved teaching math....getting those little minds to grasp subtraction regrouping was a real challenge. Guess I'll have to brush up on French if I'm ever lucky enough to get back to France. Until then, I will continue to use it infrequently when I do my crosswords.
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  • Posted by rbroberg 9 years, 6 months ago
    Michael, I am sure of two things: (1) a requirement from the government to learn more than one language is waste of time and money, (2) learning certain other languages is worth time and money. I am unsure about proposition (3): You are in a completely sarcastic mood.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      That is true and doesn't contradict me.

      One. Spending money on schools that don't teach and students who don't learn is a waste and time. This gets the leeches off the back of the taxpayers. Wasting time and money I am certain it does exactly the opposite. Let's quit wasting money and if the schools insist on continuing then put the money to use somewhere else.

      Requirement? Only if you want government money or government jobs. There is no real penalty for self imposing stupidity. Only for the new people if they want citzenship. It's already a requirement anyway.

      The proposition? 60 plus percent of the population with 25% of the population even if by only providing the opportunity. The rest of the population moved here already bi- or tri-lingual and are aleady qualified.that should scare the blue jeans off the couch potatoes . Are you going to sing ethe same song in 2040 t 2050 when Spanish is projected to be the majority language? Try Google there were too man cites and sources to list them all.

      How could possibly be more waste ful than the Education Department under Obama? Well you could be working for Obamacare.
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  • Posted by $ Terrylutz3682 9 years, 6 months ago
    This is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time. English is the language of the USA period. If you don't like it get out.

    Based on this post and the domination of a few individuals, I am leaving this site.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      Good idea. Fa;se Statement. Good bye...where you going? It's called participation. If you have not the intellect nor the balls well then....
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      • Posted by $ Terrylutz3682 9 years, 6 months ago
        I have both more intellect and balls than you. We should compare what we have accomplished in this USA. Maybe you should leave the site.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
          Total Points: 135
          Location: Hartford, WI
          Landed: 3 years, 4 months ago
          Last Seen: 5 hours, 5 minutes ago

          Greatest accomplishment Read AS.

          Welcome to the Gulch. We are not confined to the USA.Question: You really have three? Where were your drops?
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          • Posted by $ Terrylutz3682 9 years, 6 months ago
            If you looked me up on google you would find more acommplishments than reading AS. Your search is incomplete like most of your comments. I am a USA patriot not a globalist. What do you mean about 'where were your drops'?
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
              Quote from Heinlein. Deal. Thanks.

              I disagree on the rest. Not perfect and I don't write everything down but they are all sourced and cited. As you guessed I am an expat still heavily involved but because the USA priced itself out of the market for a mere 24 years infantry combat soldier and reneged on most of it's retirement promises.

              Not the USA but this current string of governments which i refer to as the USSA. I do not support the single party system, the pretend rigged elections nor anything about the current leftist government. I do support my original oath of office and sincerely wish the current military would up hold there's while they still have one to honor. I am heavily supportive of a return to a Constitutional Republic status.

              I define the left as anyone putting government over ciizens which starts with Republicans and goes out to Sanders, Soros and the rest of them. In a nutshell. I don't use leftist nor PC definitions nor recognize the center of the left as the center. That is the Constitution. Sad you folks abandoned it.

              A lot of what I do is try to start conversations , light a match pour a little gas on the fire and the active membership provides most of the heat. Left or right. One can learn a lot reading the answers and the responses to a little button pushing. I'm supposing we are part of the 46% to 50 plus % who have opted out as we have no representation whatsoever.

              But I overslept and missed the bus so must start the days work again, Being retired gives me that option. Two or three times a year I have to recross the border. Having found one of the many available better places I can't say I enjoy but ....duty calls or the usual convoluted inward focused requirements of life still as a citizen. The anchor chains are heavy, varied and too many for a supposed free country. It reminds me to really appreaciate living in a much freer environment.

              I wish you the same and envy you not at all.

              To the rest of you YES I overslept and missed the bus. I think it comes with a disease called candlitism or too many candles on too many cakes for too many years.

              Fellow active members of the the Gulch and acolytes of Objectivism I salute you.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 6 months ago
    Learning another language is useless unless you have the opportunity to have an exchange with native speakers with some frequency. The speaking skills deteriorate surprisingly quickly if not used regularly.

    Learning Spanish makes sense for residents of states with a significant Hispanic population, but learning any other language should be situation-dependent.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      Little rule a lot of us learn. When they come north of the border it is their responsibility to learn our language. When we go south of the border it is our responsbility not to sound illiterate. On each side of the border aren't helping anyone by using the wrong language.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 9 years, 6 months ago
    The problem with an English-only rule would be the territories we took from Mexico and later from Spain (Puerto Rico). After the Mexican war the US made a treaty agreement that Spanish would always be allowed in the conquered territories.

    So I would make us officially a two-language country, like Canada before they allowed Quebec to go French-only. And I would teach kids both languages in the schools. Most of the government offices already offer both and several others.

    But I wouldn't require people already here to learn another language. And I would make it legal to discriminate, so that neighborhoods and apartment houses can go all one language, thus solving the problem for the people who live there.
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 9 years, 6 months ago
      Actually, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo did not give the conquered Mexicans and their descendants the right to use only Spanish in perpetuity. A standard clause in such documents gives the conquered people the right for that generation to use their native language, but subsequent generations are expected to assimilate.

      I realize that in today's world we have to be careful to not hurt their feelings. So the old treaties get interpreted to say things they never intended.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
        Ever wonder why PR's in the military get promoted and which do not?

        The way solved that is refusing to answer up to anything but English.When i went to anothere couontry it was a point of pride to be able to speak with the natives in their language. Jack in the Crack in San Diego I did my reverse dumb gringo act and order only in English. And was thanked for helping them learn some more.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      You notice I purposelfully sidelined Dutch and French? Or did they side line themselves? hmmmm

      Official takes a vote or procalamation of government. Other than the requirement for all documents to be in English I fail to see any evidence of official. You first sentence is something you made up? Now why would you do something like that? What treaty by what name and where's the source and cite? Treaty with who? That is a contact between nations. PR is not a nation. Guam and Samoa speak Chamorro and the Phillippines chose to make English and official language along with Tagalog.
      Your last sentence is currently in use. Sort of leaves you figuring out how to get to first base when it's under your feet.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
    Having sparked this one it's enouogh and I'm ducking out for a few days not like a politician no quacks please but applause is nice. Back on Sat or Sunday or who knows. Life is laid back in FNA. I'll leave you with one comment to chew over. English should be the official language is not a true statement and here's the proof. One attempt in 240 years shows the vast majority are not interested in that change. Either that or the vast majority is to busy sitting on their couch potato ass which is much the same thing. Think about it. I just stated the major problem with the USSA.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 6 months ago
    I think it's a problem that will solve itself. My part of the country had a lot of German and Scandinavian immigration. I don't think there was any gov't plan to get people to speak English. You can hear bits of the German/Scandinavian influence in causal conversation here.

    My grandparents spoke proficient Swedish and Italian, and my parents knew only a few words. I know more Scandinanvian words from business travel than from my family of origin.

    I think people will keep doing the same thing, moving for jobs/projects, sometimes marrying people from other cultures, learning languages as needed to communicate and thrive, and all without a plan.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      Wandering in the wilderness saying WHY o WHY did the parents allow this to happen when it was so easy to fix. All without a plan. Well it got us this far now we have to clean up the mess.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      True but they moved away from the eastern seaboard Tammany Hall influences and are hard headed anyway. One doesn't find an little Oslo nor a little Sweden anywhere to the extent it was common and with that politcally controlled including a slow down on learning the language as the Italians and Irish on the East Coast. The Irish hated English anyway and caughtr a break working on the railroads. Italians didn't need the jobs they had The God Father.

      The Latinos never mind the illegals were there first and supplanted by the Englilsh speakers. Texicans or Tejanos means Mexican descent born in the USA as USA citizens. So that culture was already in place. Follows a time of to keep it short carpet bagging and pachucos until that started to slowly died out. Two examples of impetus. Selena and The Mono Bichi Sttue in Nogales entitled killing ignorance. The kids always cross the lines with ease where those stuck in the past fear to tread. There loss our disdain.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
    It was my contention that the most used languages English and Spanish would become the national languages in a nationi that was bi-lingual de facto if not de jure. Language is the glue that welds the country together. Given a 12 year education cycle with the schools, education in general and the largest employer in the country demanding bi-linguality that alone would produce a national culture. Latinos as the second largest ethnic group in the country are like those of more northern European descent they have one common language the Spanish and Portuguese made the biggest and most long lived impact in South and Central America and the southern third of North America. Italian not at all and French Dutch very little. English and Spanish hold sway. Learn two if not all three and the Western Hemisphere is your personal oyster. Learn Californian and limited to being sidelined humor with no cultural respectly at all.
    World doesn't operate on Oh Yeah Well it's like Duhh doooood. In any form. In the rest of the world one is hard pressed to find people who don't speak one of the three major western hemisphere languages.

    The greatest stumbling block will be finding teachers with the ability to teach English and Spanish. But teachers are a curious breed of the labor market. Wave a dollar bill or a peso in front of them it's sniff sniff gimme. I will not denigrate all obviously there are many exceptions. but the 99% in NEA will have to be forced into teaching whether they like it or not. Or sent to the unemployment lines.

    Teaching is an add on to any some other skill. It's not and end unto itself. Any degree holder in any field should be able to pick up a teaching credential with a 5th year and by golly it exists. It's called a Masters.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 6 months ago
      Counter proposal.
      "Language is the glue that welds the country together."
      Speak ENGLISH or get the hell out.
      Take your Spanish back to wherever you came from and never darken the shores of America with it again. If you want a better life, then LEARN THE LANGUAGE OF THE COUNTRY YOU ARE INVADING which also happens to be the language of science and technology because more advances in those areas have come from people who speak ENGLISH than any other language.
      ENGLISH speakers have been the leaders in technology for over 100 years.
      LEARN ENGLISH. NO OTHER LANGUAGE IS REQUIRED.
      This is the process that created America and made it great.
      It is counter-productive to change it.
      The statist looters changed it and have used it to destroy the most productive society the world has known; change it back.
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
        That's what the original European influence said to the English speakers. Lo! Those without sin cast the first stone. It won't be those who deny freedom of education and opportunity and what was it ...life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.-- and replace it with socialist paradise.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 6 months ago
          What original Euro influence are you referring to?
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          • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
            Norway, Ireland, Portugal and Spain should ring a bell. First Europeans, in order to discover and make use of the Western Hemisphere. Followed by France, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden and a host of other European countries that flocked in that direction from 1400 or so to as late as yesterday. Not much influence I'll admit but it's a limited area to work with Ahhh Russia and Ukraine and some of them over a hundred years ago. .

            One in particular settled great parts of North and Central America and thaks to a Pope almost all of South America. It's called Spain. Their descendants of a century or two were famous for a number of things and infanous for others. But their descendants todays Latinos in an earlier form were on hand to greet the settlers and immigrants from the more northern and eastrern European countries some of whom who came direct - Germans for example ever been to Luchinback Texas - and some indirectly from the United States of America. You might have heard of some of these places.

            So the saying refers to some of the descendants of the Spanish and the Spanish side of their heritage. He among you without sin maybe be the first to cast stones and also to the settlers from places like Louisiana and Tennesee.

            You personally may not have a Euro background in that case we can probably find another reason other than Euro.

            History 203 is concluded for the day. Si no hay preguntas sigue su guia. What sin? Stay tune to read the next question. I'll do that one upon my return on Saurday or possibly before or after..

            O
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      • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
        In other words business as usual. Divide and conquer the leftist version and keep US citizens dumb and stupid with no education the cons

        ervative version so now the left and right wing of the left have been heard from. Playing stupid is what got us where we are and if you think no other language is needed for success in AND out of the country your playing stupid Per chance you are a school teacher?

        It's a big world out there and Duuuhb Like Huhhh attitude isn't going to cut it any more except to pad the welfare lines. Why do you neanderthals insist on confining your horizons to borders you can't protect anyway?

        Did you read anywhere that said make English the only language or English and Spanish? No you DID NOT. Right now we HAVE no official language. zero zip nada goose egg. We also have no education and a view of life tht goes to the end of some peoples noses. THATs why we're in the fix we're in stupid uneducated people who continue to vote for criminals and right now that means a choice of left, left, and left or loooooooseeeeerrrrrr
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        • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 6 months ago
          No, not business as usual today.
          Business as it was before the revolutions of 1913 and 1933. Before the fed. Before FDR. Before the looters failed to obey the constitution and enforce the law. Before the looters took control of education and put chemicals in the water system that dull the senses..
          I agree that the education system is a propaganda system.
          I do not agree that any American should be forced to learn Spanish, but I do think that it's wise to make learning proper use of English a requirement for graduation from high school and proficiency in English a requirement for legal immigration.
          Foreigners from all over Europe and Asia have done so in the past and have assimilated into the society. They have also added some of their culture to the society when people voluntarily accepted it. It made the culture richer and the economy likewise. They were not offered handouts. They were not told they would be supported if they didn't learn English. So they learned English or did not have the opportunity to advance. Federal control of education, and handouts, (and federal refusal to control immigration that occurred because of handouts) and many other parts of life caused this problem. Forcing Americans to learn a language of the third world is insulting and unwise. Learning Spanish (or any other foreign language) should be voluntary. Those who recognize an advantage to learning Spanish will do so. Those who do not will miss that opportunity. BUT (imo) EVERYONE should be fluent in ENGLISH. That said, the state and local governments should have control. If the people of San Diego, California decide to require Spanish for their students, they should have the right, but the people of St Louis, Missouri, Atlanta, Georgia, and Boise, Idaho, can chose for themselves.
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          • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
            You don't read so well do you?

            One make the national standard two languages. ENGLISH is mandatory.

            Two just like in years past and the rest of the world make a second language mandatory. Any language.

            The fact is Sipanish IS the easiest one to learn but Thai will do just fine.

            IF they already have the second language the requirement is met BUT they must learn English that's mandatory.

            Schools must teach ENGLISH to foreign students without that skill BEFORE any other subjects.

            To make it work it's like the bottle deposit law you add incentive. No government jobs including military without two languages One of which must be ENGLISH.

            With a cut down military that's something they have to stress anyway and they already have the schools.

            The states can do what they want IF they want the handouts. but only until the Department of Education is abolished.

            BUT the national standard is two languages one of which must be ENGLISH

            Same for getting citizenship.They must learn ENGLISH.to meet the national standard. The reason for that is it's national need to have everyone speaking ENGLISH

            Many will object so the two language requirement covers that.

            Only those who are never going to graduate withot a social promotion anyuway will not comply. Bueno they stil get a voting ballot in ENGLISH and all other forms.

            So if you want to insult people tell them they msut stick with the current system of divisive because it's used to control segments of the population more easily and that's all diversity means. After all it is the FASCIST way to do things and that is an ENGLISH world.

            Why leave it up to the states my take was make it an individual choice of which language to present for the second llanguage.

            Public schools are the poorest place to learn so the emphasis is on them to change and the way yiou do that is cash bribery. They don't respond to educational needs.

            But the whole goall is ENGLISH for everyone in the country MANDATORY. The rest is how to get to that point.

            You got a problem with that go somewhere else. Like California and sit back having accomplished NOTHING.
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            • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 6 months ago
              I read well and I oppose any proposal that mandates anything other than ENGLISH.
              However, it's my opinion, and the people of each community (excluding legal and illegal aliens) should decide for themselves voluntarily.
              We only disagree on a second language being mandatory. I think it should be voluntary.
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              • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
                In which case since English ISN'T mandatory and is not the offfical language since we don't have one of those you just lost 25% of the population.
                And since when do aliens decide for themselves anything about our country? Well. Since Obama and the O'bomnibles took over. But the simple method is English is required for citizenship. Tests are not given in any other language.

                The second isn't mandatory. a. any language will do EXCEPT English. which becomes MANDATORY for economic and legal reasons. b. Funding of non compliant schools becomes not mandatory. c.Schools can explain to their students why they will not qualify for nationally recognized diplomas, student loan program, employment with the government at the federal level including the military. Federal programs - federal money. federal rules nothing to do with the States. But the States can hire all the illiterate airheads they want.

                You want 100% English spoken in the Corps of Citizens you gots to pay da price dude. TANSTAAFL.

                As for the rest buy stock in Berlitz. Hey it's only one week out of your life meals included. If I had that choice I'd be doing it once a year and not whining about math is so haaaaarrrrdddddd. Now that would be a good place to run a student loan program or even an outright scholarship.

                I thought the serious questions would be how to pay for it. From the savings on shutting down the Department of Education, transferring that to the States with some minimal national standards. Such as define high school graduate. What does a Master Degree mean. What level of math for grade school, high school non preparatory and high school preparatory. Don't count out those going to tech schools they use math and science skills far more than does the social non science airheads.But now a prospective employer must have knowledge of the school system or lack thereof for fifty states. Easier to a. hire locally if the home state has proper education -or- hire immigrants with their often times three or four language capabilities.

                Objection won't come from the immigtrants as it's a fast track to the top. It will come from lazy ass do nothings millenials and x + y = zero butthead generationals Teachers included.
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                • Posted by freedomforall 9 years, 6 months ago
                  By your own words you are mandating (making mandatory) a second language. I oppose any second language mandate. As I said, that is my opinion, and it differs from your opinion in this case.
                  I also oppose federal mandates of most kinds. I do think that mandating English is a good idea, but I am sick of federal mandates of all kinds. There is no experimentation with alternatives when there is a federal mandate. The federal government has proven incompetent and counter-productive in deciding for the people. I think it's time that the people decide for themselves in their own communities. I know it likely will not create an optimum result, but I can't say that I support free markets and individual liberty and also support federal mandates.
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                  • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
                    As i said the neanderthals of the past will provide the most opposition to defend their established position of power and control by promting ignorance and diversity. It certainly no connection to Freedom For All. To get that you have to have communication not illiterate slavery. Any other real reasons to object or support?
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  • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 6 months ago
    Hagamoslo.
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    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
      agámoslo
      Spanish
      Verb

      hagámoslo

      Compound of the first-person plural (nosotros, nosotras) affirmative imperative form of hacer, hagamos and the pronoun lo.
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      • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 6 months ago
        I don't know how to get the accent mark above the second a.
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        • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
          Easy on a cell phone just keep pushing the button on a computer you have to install the right program for all the extras. Those are ancillary fonts and it means different things for different languages. In Norske Aa means O since they have none. Also A with a little bitty on the top can be used. aa' sounds like one of those norske deals where the accent makes a further change such as which syllable is emphasized.. If MS ddidn't include it in the font listuse Open Office or google.
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          • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 6 months ago
            Awesome thanks for the lesson

            I have soup, and sandwich for you if ever in the land of sky blue waters.
            tnstaafl you earned it.
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            • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
              Hamm's?
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              • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 6 months ago
                The "Schmaltz art" as discribed by Chris Coleman St. Paul mayor. The Hamm 's bear a beloved cartoon advertising icon called nothing more than" the Marlboro man" by a local leader as he stopped the statues erection at Como park in St. Paul. After a so called battle over political correctness as stated by the group promoting placement ,the outdoors sportsman loving bear statute was allowed in another part of town. Funny thing is the TC bear from target field is a spitting image .Target Field a govt funded stadium made possible by looting anyone living in the area with fees and sales taxes on what ever someone might wish to purchase.
                From the land of sky blue waters , comes the beer refreshing Hamm's the beer refreshing ..Hamm's
                A cold one included.
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                • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
                  We were north end of the state until I finished 3rd Grade went back several times and then to Bemidji State for two years. I left and beat the draft board by going RA or regular Army. did four years got out another year of college and back in My third tour I think it was the Draft Board finally caught up witih me. In Vietnam. More than of us ha ha . One of my friends kept saying PUT me in HANDcuffs send me back for trial. PLEASE. I told him shut up just cause it was his turn to walk point. Then we both walked out laughing. Bemidji though wasn't a bad school but it was where I learned to really dislike liberal professors. One of the older students and a vet said they are easy just repeat back what they say throw in a bs story and sure to get an A. After that I kind of like them. They were funny, peculiar ha ha and so easy to take advantage of however....what I really miss was MaidRites and a little canoeing in the Arrowhead. I do not miss the big insects or poison ivy and poison sumac etc. I really don't miss those Professors. But they made doing the rest as an external degree program student a treat/
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                  • Posted by Dobrien 9 years, 6 months ago
                    Ahh yes mosquito's the state bird particularly up north as we say. In the twin cities we have the metropolitan mosquito control that does reduce the count. Even worse can be the deer fly that have made my hands swell like balloons more than once . Thanks to 5 months of winter the bugs hide out till spring? Maid rites are good, oh sure, you betcha. The govt has f'd up the boundary waters canoe area
                    But it is still a brilliant nature experience .
                    The left have over ruled almost every vote I have
                    Submitted.
                    The leftist professors have nauseated me before I could understand why, usually before they opened their mouth.

                    Question why are they liberal professors able to sway so many students to altruistic collectivism and you were UN affected?
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                    • Posted by $ 9 years, 6 months ago
                      Not the answer to your question but a sort of lead is think about the best way to inlfuence a huge amount of people in a very short time.

                      Choice One: A site like Galt's Gulch
                      Choice Two . Your sandard Blog or on line news and commentary journal.
                      Choice Three. Social Media.

                      I'm seeing the twitters, twatters, and twatters and farcial facials have far out grown any other form of human contact inlcuding face to face or even voice to voice using cells as real telephones. To the point where one cannot use the facilities without reporting it to the world.

                      Low expectations but heavy interest coupled with a lack of former telephone manners fits a dumbed down population to the point I truly wish the original meaning of dumb had survived.

                      Off track a bit - given a choice of twitter face and an Obamba level mentality for the majorithy of the country, incuding educators and the remnants of the media is there any other way to influence people other than this new addiction.

                      By the way I did miss the bus for real which is why I have the time to to post this thought before going into 24 hour delay and continue mode.

                      Well that's not an answer but Add to the observation I've often seen people pretend to ahve a conversation with someone as if to show the world "See I'm iimportant." I thought ridiculous was a better word choice but then who was influencing whom?

                      Prime group groping area for the left to find fertile recruiting. After all the same mentality is exactly that which makes good collective members.
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