What would Ayn Rand think of the USA now?

Posted by $ jbrenner 7 years, 10 months ago to Culture
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In "Philosophy: Who Needs It", Rand writes, "I can say—not as a patriotic bromide, but with full knowledge of the necessary metaphysical, epistemological, ethical, political and esthetic roots—that the United States of America is the greatest, the noblest and, in its original founding principles, the only moral country in the history of the world."

I certainly agree that this was true regarding the original founding principles of the USA and that it was true at the time that she wrote it.


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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Taking chemistry was compulsory in my high school. The teacher, once we had memorized the periodic table, knowing that this particular class was from the art and music departments, spent most of the time talking politics. He would, however, in order to get our attention mix up some brews that he claimed to be dangerously acidic or explosive, which generally got our attention when he decided to quiz us in the near future, usually 2 days.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think to be a creator requires one to have a very positive view of the world and the people living in it. It is a very personal thing that can exist in a vacuum, but is certainly enhanced or detracted by one's fellow people. Statism really does make it very difficult to want to be creative.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Today my students and I prepared an acidic solution called piranha solution. Imagine 70% H2SO4 and 30% hydrogen peroxide. The peroxide oxidizes any organic that might be sticking to whatever it is you are washing, glass slides in my case in prep for a synthesis step to follow tomorrow and over the next week or so. Is that acidic enough for you? Piranha solution is one of the few things in chemistry that actually scares me.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    With thanks to Dale Halling, the quote is from Galt's Speech on p. 1047 of AS, "I was an inventor. I was one of a profession that came last in human history and will be first to vanish on the way back to the sub-human."
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It is what we stand up and make of it. The easy thing, the lazy thing, the fastest, least painful thing, is to do nothing, and let the moochers and looters and ne'er do wells and especially the dual-named monoparty keep ruling by fiat and maintain the pity-pot woe-is-me "what can I do? Who is John Galt?" lackadaisical attitude from the former the un-citizen-cum-serfs. I have out this in front of many, and in return I get a LOT of excuses why they "CAN'T", and as of yet not a one who says "I have an idea; I'll do this:..."

    Sadly, even here on this list.

    What can YOU do to stop the runaway train into the long dark night to the knights carrying the long dark knives? Or is it just too much work, or too much bother, or too much perceived risk?
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I dont remember that, but I would think it was absolutely true. Why invent when you are likely to have whatever you can make from the invention taken away from you. That happens in both uncivilized societies and statist societies.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The reason that Objectivists should care is that America is (arguably was) the only moral society in the history of the world. Producers produce in a moral society. If there is no moral society left, where will producers like us go?

    While I disagree with Trump on quite a few things, he does get capitalism and gets Rand's concept of selfishness. I do not intend to vote for Trump, but he might be the last best hope for preserving a society in which Objectivism could flourish.

    Let us suppose that Islam took over the world. Objectivists would get beheaded if taught in a Sharia-compliant country, just as Christian missionaries are. While it would be optimal for America to be Objectivist, one must have a society that is tolerant of dissent before alternative views can be presented. Think of all the police, military, and professors just fired in Turkey because their views are not in keeping with Erdogan.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Please clarify the reference. Rand said something about inventors being the last to appear in a civilized society and the first to disappear when that society becomes uncivilized. My memory of where I read that is failing. I am pretty sure it is somewhere near the beginning of AS.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    To start with why do a bunch of objectivists care about the speeches of a bunch of left wing socialist misfits? What has that got to do with objectivisit thinking or more on target to the preservation of a constitutiona republic?

    So what's the game plan now? Wait and see what Trump says....finally. They are Republicans at best and right wing of the left Rinos and Neocons. Go a bit further to the left you find leftists that were Democrats now are DINOS and asked to be called 'Socialists.
    Breaking your heart over a bunch of leftists doesn't seem to accomplish very mouch. Objectively speaking. Wesley are you listening?

    If the entire game plan is keep Hillary out and that's it i would ask "Is there nothing else to these meddlesome priests?"
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  • Posted by LarryHeart 7 years, 10 months ago
    The US government is totally immoral and corrupt. It does not obey founding principles. There is no way to fix it other than using the amendment process to restore the system based on the founding principles. Here is a blueprint of how to do it. www.TheSocietyProject.org

    Sigh of course the government will just keep getting worse because no one is serious enough to read the material there. Mostly everyone, including in the gulch, just like to talk.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I dont know what Rand said about inventors specifically, but in my experience inventions reduce the total cost of living in terms of human labor and raw materials, and allow for standards of living that are better.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, the United States of America still fits that description. The fact that the people are somewhat unrulely, as they should be living in a non-collectivist country, does not make a decline. Much of the presumed decline is what does not fit the modern shamans' view of how humans should live with respect to some supernatural world and how they might buy their ways into that world after some kind of after death judgement or for some just how to belong after feared judgement by their peers.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Interesting that robotics and automation is responsible for an improvement in living conditions in western societies, and have counterbalanced some of the effects of socialism by making things cheaper while inflation makes the money worth less- the net result is less perceived inflation.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did read somewhere that an analysis of ancient and contemporary cultures shows that large empires lasted about 250 years on the average, after which the people forgot what made the empire great and started feeding off the system. Seems like its happened here too. Human Nature I guess.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I shrugged from my business, wiggys. I understand. Being a professor is a really cool shrug job.
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  • Posted by wiggys 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    monopolize the market, no. just have the best that is available. but other bags are sold so I do not have a monopoly. there are other reasons which have been note by others why it is so difficult to start a business. mine goes back to 1988 when there weren't so many regulations. As for so few thinkers, so few of us maybe, but also there are thinkers who think I will not start a business.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The example you use regarding your sleeping bag company actually proves my point. Because there are so few thinkers out there right now, an enterprising individual like yourself, wiggys, can monopolize an entire market. (For the record, I like monopolies when I am allowed to have one.)
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You could well be right. Whether you are or not depends on whether America decides to re-embrace capitalism and limited government in its next election. If it does not, it will likely never do so again. What did Rand say about inventors?
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Indeed this is quite correct. The Hallings' novel very clearly pointed that out, and then was fulfilled in reality recently.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are most likely right. The discontentment in America right now could mean that an extremely powerful orator on behalf of Objectivism, with the right understanding of how to use social media, could change things for the better quite quickly. Whatever changes happen will take place quite quickly, in whatever direction they go, and barring the unlikely orator I mentioned, I think that it will change for the worse.
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I like to think I would have preferred to live in that era, and then I think that would mean foregoing refrigeration and air conditioning!
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One of the things that prompted me to start this post was when one of my current research students, a female from Venezuela, came to me saying that one of the reasons she came here was to flee from Maduro. I had to tell her that America was starting down the same path. I had no good suggestion of where to go instead. Then I thought of Ayn Rand.
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