Hi. My name is... Robert Smith
Posted by Boborobdos 12 years ago to The Gulch: Introductions
I'm very happy to have landed in the Gulch... I hope to get some insights for when I watch and discuss the movie.
You type: | You see: |
---|---|
*italics* | italics |
**bold** | bold |
While we're very happy to have you in the Gulch and appreciate your wanting to fully engage, some things in the Gulch (e.g. voting, links in comments) are a privilege, not a right. To get you up to speed as quickly as possible, we've provided two options for earning these privileges.
Previous comments... You are currently on page 6.
You mean like being indentured to a company because a person can't afford health care without working for one? You mean having to work for a corporation because getting a weekly paycheck really is the best they can do?
You know, not everyone is able to enjoy the Rand dream. America is made up of all kinds of people.
So corporations don't simply abuse people they have joined together in unions.
Rob
So, as you tell others to choose more to their liking it works for you too. Take your skills, selfish attitude, and noise to some other place. America has decided for itself.
Rob
But your point about "No "force" necessary for most folks means force is necessary for the rest. This was Hitler's argument.
But more generally, democracy means everyone will have to follow the majority to participate in the society. We are not arguing this. We are arguing the specific applications of this policy. There are more women than men in the USA. If the women vote to force all jobs to go to women, then by your logic, it's good enough for most folks.
Democracy is not an excuse for crime - that is a mob mentality, and it is the argument you fall back to every time (I was hoping for something more in pressing you, but back to the same spot). The flaw in your position is that you are merging democracy with morality. Democracy is a means to realize morality when properly applied, not a moral perfection of its own. But democracy depends on clear thinking by the majority, and that is the nature of this dialog - to clarify thinking and to challenge points. The reason this post is so long is because, as you have called out, it is full of strawman arguments. But the main one is yours - you relegate the point of challenge to a challenge of democracy as soon as your primary point fails.
I'm bored now.
Bye.
Rob
The WHO...
http://www.cato.org/publications/comment...
"Your "opinion" pieces aren't supported by facts." Rob
You have obviously not had enough time to examine the links I have sent you; let alone determine that they are devoid of facts. The Cato institute is a libertarian think tank that does studies dealing with facts.
O.A.
"Once only something done by the incredibly wealthy, medical tourism is "really turning into something people understand," said Josef Woodman, CEO of Patients Beyond Borders, which produces guidebooks on medical travel. The organization estimates that in 2012, 600,000 people will travel abroad (from America) for treatment -- a number anticipated to grow 15 to 20 percent annually as boomers age."
Folks around here seem to like the Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/04...
Rob
So? You don't agree with the WHO either and their statistics on how much health care costs and their success rates.
Your "opinion" pieces aren't supported by facts.
Rob
Don't like it? YOU choose someplace else. I don't have to choose options just to please you. You have choices too.
Rob
Scare tactics are wearing thin. Look what we got out of hysteria: Patriot Act.
Rob
When our federal government has a record of bankrupt programs,malfeasance and corruption why would you entrust them with your health... your most valuable asset?
There are market solutions, but the power seekers are not served by these options.
Rob
My Doctor still has to call the insurance company for approval of some treatments. How is that different from your ALLEGED death panels?
Rob
Nope. Obamacare passed muster through the Supreme Court. Further, AGAIN, why do I have to pay for wars I don't want? We are a society. Unless you want to drop out and go somewhere else you need to comply with the rules.
For reasons enumerated earlier (contagious diseases, etc.) it benefits all to be covered.
We truly are a society. Get used to America.
If you don't like it, rather than telling someone else to get another job, or increase their value, etc., YOU are free to find a country that suits you more. Go there if America isn't good enough for you.
Rob
Foreign nations with national healthcare are no panacea. They have many problems you are overlooking, like the long and often life threatening/ death sentence, waiting periods for critical tests like MRIs. The destruction of the capitalist medical system we now have will result in less advancement of medicine. The other nations with national systems are not innovators; they ride upon our coattails without investment in R&D.
If medicaid is so wonderful, then why didn’t the government just make it available to those in need and leave the rest of us alone?
Max Baucus, the author of the plan is calling it a train wreck.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/17...
Obama’s hometown paper, The Chicago Tribune is now recognizing the folly.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-...
The IPAB is a bureaucratic death panel. They will decide who shall receive benefits and who shall not. Even many democratic leaders are in recognition of this. http://www.lifenews.com/2013/08/08/democ...
When you have choice and are not coerced /forced you have choice and competition in your insurance/healthcare needs.
“… an attempt to achieve the good by physical force is a monstrous contradiction which negates morality at its root by destroying a man’s capacity to recognize the good, i.e., his capacity to value. Force invalidates and paralyzes a man’s judgment, demanding that he act against it, thus rendering him morally impotent. A value which one is forced to accept at the price of surrendering one’s mind, is not a value to anyone; the forcibly mindless can neither judge nor choose nor value. An attempt to achieve the good by force is like an attempt to provide a man with a picture gallery at the price of cutting out his eyes. Values cannot exist (cannot be valued) outside the full context of man’s life, needs, goals, and knowledge.” CUI “What Is Capitalism” p. 23.
O.A.
Btw your statement, better results for less cost applies to every human endeavor. I'm sure Karl Marx would approve of better results and less cost in most situations. The flip side of that is not everyone wants to cut corners and save money. Some people want to take the long road just for the hell of it and that's terrific.
To be fair I see your point, we do have control over our government, we elected our leaders and not enough people raised their voices in protest when things like this happened. But your approving the tyranny of the majority. You're saying that personal judgement doesn't matter if the majority agrees it's good for you. There's no way any human should have to live their life. If I want to smoke and drink and party till I die that's my choice. It's my choice if I want to trust modern medicine. It's NOT my choice if I want to pay taxes, or pay for other people's medicine.
No "force" necessary for most folks. Other countries have adopted it through their assorted legislative processes and we have gotten thus far with Obamacare via the legislative process in spite of the lies that have had to be overcome.
Rob
Absolutely false. I am arguing that it is less expensive and we would get better care, as has been demonstrated time and again.
Better results, less cost! Ayn Rand would approve.
Rob
The key thing to remember is that we don't live in a monotheistic (in the context of what / who we look up to) but many people are driven by things besides Ayn Rand.
Rob
Load more comments...