More proof the Wall St looters have rigged all the financial markets to steal from small investors

Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 11 months ago to Business
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This example is european banksters, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. US banksters invented this kind of looting.
Excerpt:
The Deutsche Bank documents show, among other things, how two UBS traders communicated directly with two Deutsche Bank traders and discussed ways to rig the market. The traders shared customer order-flow information, improperly triggered customer stop-loss orders, and engaged in practices such as spoofing, all meant to destabilize the price of silver ahead of the fix and result in forced selling or buying. It is also what has led on so many occasions to the infamous previous metals "slam", when out of nowhere billions in notional contracts emerge, usually with the intent to sell, to halt any upside moment in the precious metals/

"UBS was the third-largest market maker in the silver spot market and could directly influence the prices of silver financial instruments based on the sheer volume of silver it traded," the plaintiffs allege. "Conspiring with other large market makers, like Deutsche Bank and HSBC, only increased UBS’s ability to influence the market."

Some examples of the chats quoted are shown below. In the first example a chart between DB and HSBC traders in which one HSBC trader says "really wanna sel sil[ver" to which the other trader says "Let's go and smash it together."


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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Industrial demand for silver is only part of the equation. You also have to factor in rampant speculation and manipulated supply.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I like all of this investing philosophy, except the part about silver being less volatile than gold. I think silver is actually a little more volatile than gold, but I do not know why.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 8 years, 11 months ago
    Interesting comments. I have never gotten into trading gold, it just seems to be a bit flaky. Since there is little intrinsic value to most retail purchasers it is a market that could collapse on a whim, just like tulip bulbs. Silver has more commercial utility since a lot of silver is used in manufacturing. So it should have a more stable demand. However, all of my investing has been in real estate and stocks. Over the loooooooong term RE has always gone up, short term can bite. That being said, if you keep your ear to the ground market timing can be done in RE, but it IS NOT a game for most short horizon speculators. There really is quite a bit of transparency with the stocks of a publicly traded company. If you are willing to do the study required and not try to be an ignorant day trader the market will probably reward you on average. If you treat the market like a casino, it will treat you like a casino treats it's customers.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree with this as well. The main problem seems to be the near-monopoly. There are really not that many traders (that are any good) and even far fewer market-making participants. The traders are heavily incentivized by performance, so of course, there is going to be some looting going on. There are only two things that would make a dent:

    1.) Instead of a bunch of bullshit regulations that are impossible by the losers at the SEC to enforce (many of whom are trying to get a job at a bank), lets try this - The government regulation is in the form of providing a cyber filter on the data connections to any licensed trading establishment. Guess what, no Twitter, no FaceBook, no text messages, emails are filtered through a SIEM for white and blacklisting, and phone call traffic is logged.

    2.) The traders work in a SCIF. Guess what, their cell phones don't work. They go in ahead of the market day, and they leave when its over. They can return personal phone calls at lunch when it wouldn't make any difference in the market.

    Ultimately, I happen to think the banks need to not be in the trading business and there needs to be a lot more transparency into what is bought and owned by pensions & 401k funds. On the individual investor level, let the buyer beware. Gold & Silver has always been a volatile investment, it ebbs and flows with the strength of the dollar (basically). Buying gold or silver is a bet against the dollar. I don't think I'd be betting against the dollar with a Trump presidency. 8 years ago when Obummer was firing up the printing presses at the Mint, it was the only investment in town.

    The Euro is going to pretty much be in free-fall with Brexit and now France and others considering a removal of themselves from the EU. It won't be long before the euro is basically the Deutschmark.
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  • Posted by $ TomB666 8 years, 11 months ago
    Thanks for the information - I thought it was happening, but did not understand the mechanism.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 11 months ago
    [shakes head]. That's why banking needs to be non-governmental. It would bring more market pressure to bear and things like this once reported (especially via social media) would put the company out of business.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Start by removing restrictions on financing that give Wall St banksters a near monopoly and let companies raise funds on the internet in a free market. Let small businesses raise funds easily and be competitive. The current cartel system gives great advantages to large companies and acts as a conduit that suppresses smaller businesses, feeding them to Wall St and large less productive companies. Since the people on Wall St have no ethics about stealing from their customers, do not allow short selling on any shares of companies (without restricting such activity by producers of commodities.) imo, the share market should be a place to raise funding for productive activity, not a restricted cartel or gambling hall used by unscrupulous pirates to destroy the savings of everyone who actually works and produces.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 8 years, 11 months ago
    I see this issue, but I'm not sure what to recommend is done about it. What actions should be taken that in the end expand freedoms?
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You can't put modern wealth in a safe. The value is not in raw materials. It's in systems/structures that help people serve one another.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 11 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sometimes posts get dinged when it's critical of the banking cartel and its members. Thanks for your support, dino.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 8 years, 11 months ago
    Me dino on a Squeaks the Minus Point Troll patrol.
    0 +1 = 1. Your post does not deserve a zero or maybe you asked the wrong question.
    Moving on to inspect three more zeros.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 11 months ago
    You have said public companies selling shares is fraud because of lack of transparency. According to this article, the market for Ag has the same problem. The lack of transparency and general illiquidity is even more pronounced in the market for real estate and small business. So where does someone who wants transparency put his wealth?
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