I was always confused by the Borg being the enemies! I think if you followed the show's inner most principles, you would end up a Borg! (It's been a long time since I've watched that show, so give me some slack if I'm mistaken...)

I prefer Gaddafi's bodyguards... So bad*ass-looking. lol

Yea...then we can all dress up like the NK's under uoooon confu!

Yeah true! Starfleet IS a military organization, after all. In the future everyone should be a part of the military I guess?

"Sounds more like Democrats, to me. :-)"
I know. I wasn't clear on that. I meant this sounds like something Republicans would say about Democrats. The show didn't portray the aid from the Caretaker as fixing the Ocampa's problems, and they all lived happily ever after. It showed them becoming dependent on the Caretaker for their basic needs and also unable to defend themselves.

"Out-of-touch experts want to help people based on past crimes..." Sounds more like Democrats, to me. :-)

Oh, I did not down vote your post. I would never down vote anyone having a civil discussion expressing their views and I appreciate your views and the time you take to express them. You have a much more detailed memory of the series than I do because mainly what I recall is it was a crappy show with a crappy PC message that only used the "Star Trek" moniker to get people to watch it.

The jokes, looks, clinton herself and policies all fit together in a most evil, non-conscious expression of what she is.

"this sounds like the Republicans"
I meant it sounds like a Republican message. As it is it reads like I'm saying Republicans create dependency, which is not what I meant.

"creating a "refuge" or "zoo" for the surviving species on the planet. The shows question becomes what happens to the zoo when the evil white guy dies off? Not a republican message at all."
I know very few Republicans, but this sounds like the Republicans before their deplorables came out of the shadows: Out-of-touch experts want to help people based on past crimes. They accidentally create a "zoo" dehumanizing and robbing the dignity of the very people they want to help. The result is the people cannot provide for themselves or protect themselves. Fortunately, Janeway's ship is well-armed. She destroys the Caretaker's facility and fights off the Kazon.

Hi CG, I didn't address the second part of your response - valid thought, but I didn't see it that way. I'm multitasking right now and have to go so here's the quick response: I see the narrative as the evil white guy wrecked the environment, but had some kind of epiphany and had to atone by creating a "refuge" or "zoo" for the surviving species on the planet. The shows question becomes what happens to the zoo when the evil white guy dies off? Not a republican message at all.

Have to run...

Re: "I heard he was supposed to be Wesley's flight squad commander, Locarno, in The First Duty who lied to cover up the death of a student doing a daredevil maneuver. They made it a different character to avoid paying royalties or something."

I heard different, that when they were casting Voyager they were looking for a Robert Duncan McNeill type and couldn't find a satisfactory one. They finally decided to use McNeill himself even though he had played a different character on Next Generation. Royalties wouldn't enter into the picture, he would be entitled to the same royalties for reruns regardless of which character he played.

" Voyager is because the writers could announce to the viewers he was a criminal, which was an acceptable way to put him on the show. "
I heard he was supposed to be Wesley's flight squad commander, Locarno, in The First Duty who lied to cover up the death of a student doing a daredevil maneuver. They made it a different character to avoid paying royalties or something. In The First Duty, Locarno takes full responsibility for the accident, when he could have tried to pass the buck. So he comes off a good person who made a mistake. Paris said he went to jail for not telling the truth, so I think of them as the same character.

Later in the show Paris really becomes a character who's good at everything: flying the ship, engineering, part-time medic. At least once I can remember them exploiting the trope where the white male is ignorant of prejudice, but the time I'm thinking of actually worked for me. It was funny, not a public service msg.

I wonder what they were trying to say with Harry Kim, who never progresses in rank and often is the butt of plots where he's the new, inexperienced, uncouth guy. Janeway seems overbearing and autocratic. Tuvok is annoyingly arrogant. I don't think they were making comments about Asians, women, or African Americas with these characters.

They do go overboard with the Chakotay Native American thing. He's kind of a mix of many tribes and stupid stereotypes. They play that Native music, and his mumbo-jumbo turns out to be right.

All in all, though, the show is just not that good. You might watch Threshold to see it dip into so-bad-it's-good territory.

"I wonder if you'd bonk me on the bean with my bottle of Guinness within the first half hour. "
No, I like nit-picking and disagreeing about Star Trek. The only way I had g/fs in high school was I went to a school for nerds.

"I still remember the first episode where he was pretty disgruntled... and as he embraced the "point four program" of the Federation, "
He cannot come to terms with the loss of his wife, and he ends up finding peace in the Bajoran religion, which his superiors in Star Fleet either ignore or are concerned might affect is loyalty. Contrary to seeking to line up Federation aid to make Bajor a client state, he at one point urges their gov't to sever ties with the UFP to prevent their being invaded again. The show present Bajor and Sisko as religious and the UFP is atheist, and it does a good job of staying out of the issue. In the first season it presents some religious people as violent extremists, but it presents atheists and non-extremists religious people working together.

By the '90s "diversity" meant anyone except a white male and still does to this day. My impression is the only reason a white guy was part of the main cast (crew?) on Voyager is because the writers could announce to the viewers he was a criminal, which was an acceptable way to put him on the show. I'm clueless as to what became of him after the second episode as I didn't watch the series after that.

Ha, it would be interesting if you and I could kick back and watch the first episodes together and offer our comments. I wonder if you'd bonk me on the bean with my bottle of Guinness within the first half hour. LOL!

All of these jokes say nothing about Clinton herself or her policies. They only reveal something about the character of some of her critics.

"The symbolism of the obviously forced crew "diversity""
I never saw that at all. When you say "diversity" in the 90s political context, I think of working with people who look different or have radically different life experiences. The Maquis were a militant separatist group. I hope the writers weren't saying this is an allegory for having co-workers who are black or gay.

"the "environmental disaster" of the planet caused by an alien finally represented as a white guy farmer, so obviously meant to be a depiction of a Hollyweird liberal's idea of a conservative Republican,"
What? I'll have to watch it again. I remember it being completely different. There were two aliens who had the power to move ships long distances, a male and female. They made some mistake that hurt the Ocampa. They felt obligated to support the Ocampa for life. The Ocampa became weak as a result. The female alien left. The male alien was dying of old age and was trying to find a way to keep his ship from falling into Kazon hands and to save the Ocampa who had become completely unable to support themselves. This show came out just after the Republicans took over Congress with their Contract with America. One of the key Republican messages at the time was scaling back Welfare programs, which they said created dependence and a cycle of being victims, just as in the show. In this context, the show has a Republican message. I don't have any reason to think they were responding to politics. I think the show had nothing to do with politics.

"Chakotay belonged to a group known as the Maquis"
Clearly in DS9, the major powers are presented as bloated empire. I liked the way DS9 handled this. The UFP was not always right or the Maquis always wrong. I wish they had continued that in Voyager, with some conflict in which the Maquis have good points. Captain Janeway could have recognized these points and acquiesced but been afraid her authority was being undermined if she looked like she was giving in too much, even when the Maquis were right.

For whatever reason I never felt the sense of being stranded far from home on a ship with rebels. When I watch the reimagined BSG, I can accept they're a group of humans on the same side who don't agree on everything stranded in hostile territory. I never felt that with Voyager.

Hi, CG. I was away on a business trip when Voyager first aired and I had a friend record the first episodes so I wouldn't miss anything while I was away, which gave me the opportunity to marathon them in one sitting when I returned. It's been a long time so some of the details escape me but the impression I received is still with me. The symbolism of the obviously forced crew "diversity" and the "environmental disaster" of the planet caused by an alien finally represented as a white guy farmer, so obviously meant to be a depiction of a Hollyweird liberal's idea of a conservative Republican, was eye rolling BS. The whole thing was meant to be a litany of indictment and slaps in the face on Western Civilization and how evil it all is. My Bullshirt meter was pegged on full and smoking and left me with no desire whatsoever to see any more. When I returned the tapes (yes, VHS in those days) to my friend he asked what I thought. I gave him my honest opinion and he just laughed and agreed and said he can now use the tape for something more useful.

What I found interesting way back when was the parallel someone (likely unknowingly) stuffed into that - Chakotay belonged to a group known as the Maquis... which were supposed to be a rebel band fighting the benevolent and good Federation... however, in real life, the Maquis were French Guerilla Fighters in WW2... meaning the Federation (who the Maquis were fighting) would be the equivalent of the Vichy government... And we all know who they were part of...

Add to this - his distinctive facial tattoo - was (to me) grabbing at another group - the Maori - who fought fiercely against yet another overarching and conquering empire - this time, the British.

With that one character, I realized that either the writers were saying the "good federation" was really a bloodsucking leech of a dictatorial empire... or the writers never put 15 seconds of research (about things I remembered from my Sophomore World History class) into the real message they were (perhaps unwittingly) espousing.

Regardless - the way they ended Voyager, bringing in deliberate time manipulation, was, to me, a cheap and schlocky device because no one had a clue how to do a decent ending... or would put in the work to craft one. Kate Mulgrew - the Buns of Steel - ended up in the right place much, much later in her career (playing opposite Taylor Schilling) for being part of this "crime against good scriptwriting"...

Goes with the look: "What is that on my forehead? I hope it doesn't tell when I'm lying!"

Last night me dino channeled surfed away from the hurricane and caught the last 15 or so minutes of "The Orville," which I did not know exited.
Saw a large hostile alien spacecraft get booby-trap destroyed by some kinda time warping quickie grow redwood tree.
I'll be checking the whole thing out next Sunday.

The vagina on here forehead is precious!

Even the wicked witch was smarter than pelosi!
I'm thinking Debbie Schultz...

Here you go:
https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

Pppffftttthahahahah...what'll they dream up next!