Religous Freedom being used as an argument to support discrimination

Posted by Maphesdus 12 years, 2 months ago to Legislation
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New Arizona legislation could give business owners the right to discriminate against anyone they want, as long as they have a religious reason for doing so. If this passes, it would effectively destroy the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as well as all other Civil Rights and equal protection laws.


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  • Posted by Rozar 12 years, 2 months ago
    I don't know if this has been said but plain and simple people should be allowed to discriminate, on any grounds. You can't force people to provide a service they don't want to provide. As to whether it helps or hurts minorities that's a non issue. Government isn't here to help one group or any group. Or at least it shouldn't.
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  • Posted by Rocky_Road 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The liberal excuse for the disproportionate number of incarcerated black drug dealers/offenders, is that they must have been 'targeted'.

    In reality, blacks are committing a disproportionate number of drug related crimes....
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And yet, advocates of the 1964 Civil Rights act maintain that if you do not hire unqualified people who happen to be of certain racial, ethnic, sexual, or other favored groups, you are "guilty" of discrimination.

    So if I determine that a person suffering from Down's Syndrome can't manage my office, then that's discrimination? (the bad kind that you want to be illegal)?
    Therefore if I determine that a person suffering from homosexuality can't manage my office, that too is the same kind of discrimination?

    You're all over the board here.
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  • Posted by $ Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The civil rights act of 1964 is wrong. It is an act, not part of the Constitution.

    The civil rights act of 1964 can say whatever it wants to say. It can say that PI is 3.0. It can say that water flows uphill. Doesn't make it so.

    Those who create laws cannot be allowed to think themselves above the Constitution, or that they can change or circumvent the Constitution via legislation or regulation.
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  • Posted by $ Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And how is the free practice of religion tyranny?
    The only way for religion to become tyrannical is if it adopts the trappings of government. Hence the 1st Amendment prohibition against a state religion (such as the Green religion we enjoy today).
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Prove that discrimination isn't a protected right. The burden of proof is on you. And it's amusing that you went from "right" to "protected right". The 9th Amendment makes all rights "protected rights" as the Constitution does not grant rights, it merely... protects them.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Because you have everything backwards.

    I have the right to do anything that doesn't infringe upon another person's rights.

    We don't need permission from government to exercise our rights, as our rights come from God, not government.

    If I should only consider women of my own race to marry... if I should alternatively only consider short women to marry, or red-headed women to marry... that is also discrimination, and is my right, and may well be based upon religious considerations or simply taste. Nevertheless, it is discrimination.

    By your reasoning, I must marry every woman I meet who wishes to marry me, or else I'm guilty of the secular sin of "discrimination".
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It's the never ending laws against freedoms that I have a problem with. There are tooooooo many laws and they make having a business harder and harder and harder to maintain.
    There are laws against illegal immigration that aren't being enforced. Why aren't you crying about those laws?
    The Governments only purpose is supposed to be protecting us from enemies foreign or domestic. NOT all this other stuff you keep trying to justify just because some power-lusters implemented them. And they break their Constitutional oathes doing it too... Have you know appreciation for our Constitution???
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If I own my body, why do I have to wear a seat belt?

    (the answer has nothing to do with safety and peripherally to do with Obamacare).
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Nope. Businesses should not be permitted to deny service to customers simply because they dislike the particular group that a customer happens to belong to.

    Now if a customer is being rude, disrespectful, and/or violent, then that customer can be ejected from the premises until they calm down. Discriminating against certain types of behavior is perfectly fine. Discriminating against certain demographics is not.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are evidently presuming that said person has a *right* to *your* product or service.

    We have a word for that, which describes a practice prohibited by the 13th Amendment...

    "Slavery".
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very true, though I'm not sure how you would manage to accomplish that goal if you refused to provide service to your customers.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And from where does which government acquire the legal... LEGAL power to regulate public business? What is the converse of "public business"? A "public" business would be one owned by... the "general public".
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  • Posted by $ Mimi 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Who cares? Catholic Charities is but one private group that served a community’s need. If you think there is a need for an adoption agency that also finds homes for transgender kids, then build it. Public affairs? A mother wants to make sure her child goes to a good Catholic or christian home with a mother and a father. It’s about trust. She sought out that specific adoption agency to meet her needs. Good job in robbing a mother of her ambitions in order to placate a self-serving special interest group who want to play ‘mommy and daddy’ because it’s the new fad.
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Are you suggesting that government has no power to enforce laws? If people are not required to obey laws established by the government, what use then is government?
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Very well, I will restate: government is well within its legal power to regulate public business.
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  • Posted by $ Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Klan was perfectly justified in burning crosses. I should be able to burn a cross in my back yard, if I so choose. The Klan, however, insisted on burning crosses on other people's property. The right of property is a fundamental right (again, protected by the 9th Amendment).

    Please explain to me what rights I'm denying others by not doing business with them?

    The 1st Amendment does NOT guarantee the separation of church and state. Reread it. it prohibits the federal government, specifically the legislative branch, from making laws establishing a national church (think Anglican), or prohibiting people from practicing their religions.
    Note that the 1st Amendment does NOT prevent States or local governments from doing so. It was the 14th Amendment that extended the prohibition to the States.
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "You do NOT have a right to do business with me."

    The Civil Rights Act of 1964 says otherwise... ;)

    Obviously everyone is going to believe that their own religion is the only true religion, and there's nothing wrong with that. But problems arise when people think their religious beliefs put them above the law and make them exempt from following the laws. That can never be allowed.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    What the hell, we let women kill people just for having an odd appearance and being inconvenient.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It could and did. There were bars and restaurants that closed their doors rather than comply. You justify them being forced to choose between violating the sensibilities of their customers, something they know better than bureaucrats in Washington, and going out of business.

    So your position is that they only have the right to do business so long as they comply with YOUR vision of morality.
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Protection from the tyranny of religion is just as vital to a free society as protection from the tyranny of government.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 12 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You assume that the victors and defeated are equally dishonest.

    Exactly how does one separate the facts from the author's propaganda?

    In point of fact, one can't. Propaganda can, and often is, true. Propaganda is merely information intended to promote an agenda (or discredit an agenda). How does one separate facts that are omitted from propaganda?
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