So, was your uncle just some rotter? And if so, does that speak for all teachers? And if it were up to you, what would you set wages at? What would you pay a math teacher? A gym teacher? An art teacher. By what standard? How do you pick a good one?

We had this discussion before about public education. The problem is the system, not the teachers. Private schools offer some relief in the landscape, but the problem with education in the main is the same as the problem in transportation in general. You can complain about the common culture, or you can manage your corner of it.

Since 2012, I have served every year as a judge in our regiional science fairs. It is not much, but it is what I do. What do you do?

Agreed that the lack of direct market freedoms skews the context for the teachers. However, they are affected by changes in supply and demand. Districts and neighborhoods come and go in size. Classes become overcrowded and schools are closed for lack of enrollment. Also, new curricula are added. A few years ago, I gave a series of lectures to high school criminology classes. Those did not exist a decade earlier. At that school, they had six sections of AP Statistics, another subject not taught and certainly not in such volume, earlier. To fill the classes with teachers, they bid (within union rules, within government rules) to attract teachers to their district. As for those government rules, do not blame "the liberals." The State of Texas controls all public education from the state capitol. There is little local variance in methods and none in textbooks. A free market brings diversity of products and services. States with independent school districts do see a kind of competition and a kind of market.

I am not clear on two points. You think that what teachers do is not important? ("And I do dislike the argument that what teachers do is very important...")

Do you think that I was claiming that all teachers are interchangeable? My point was that teacher pay is not the determining factor in student outcome.

As I said in the previous discussion on this topic, the fact that their salaries are set by political process forces them to negotiate for wages by the same means.

Presumably "the media" is the sources of information that are read/viewed by the majority of the people. Not a lot of people read FEE materials, quite a few more watch Fox News -- which is probably why the left is so determined to destroy it.

One can be opposed to the educational system and the way money is spent without being opposed to the teachers themselves. Vast sums of money disappear into bureaucracies without making it to the classroom. Unfortunately the teachers union, supported by most teachers, strongly resists any effort to break up this governmental construction and allow the creation of smaller organizations.

I do think that the attorney model of teaching might make more sense where teachers band together, hire staff and run schools rather than being employees of the state.

And I do dislike the argument that what teachers do is very important -- unless someone wants to hold them responsible for the result, in which case it's not their fault. We've all been students and we are well aware that the quality of teaching varies significantly, but "teachers get paid pretty much the same everywhere" denies the quality of good teachers. It says "all teachers are the same" -- a collective view of the world.

(1) "The media" is an unnanmed collective. Does "the Media" not include FEE itself as well as Fox News and Glenn Beck? The definition of "the Media" is missing: no one is identified as empowered to speak for all. And no analysis is provided to compare and contrast sources.

(2) Why are you mad at teachers? As Newt Gingrich said about all government employees: these folks are your neighbors; they are not evil; they just have the wrong information system. Do you hate the city parks department, too? Refuse collectors? The problem is the institution in which they work. And it was "we the peiople" who created and empowered those structures. The problem is not gardeners or teachers, but the lack of an open market.

(3) Was your high school physics teacher overpaid? How about the woman who taught you cursive? What was that worth to you in your life? Education is invaluable.

(4) For every conservative who complains that public education is "Marxist" there is a real Marxist who points out that schools just train people to work at pointless jobs for low wages and then waste their money on consumerist junk in order to fuel the capitalist war machine. (Just sayin'...)

(5) The original post and the first comments are just examples of "moral posturing" which has been discussed here in the Gulch.

(6) Since 2012, I have been a judge in our regional science fairs. I have seen the outcomes. Teachers get paid pretty much the same everywhere. What counts most is the involvement of the parents in the education of their children. We have a Muslim "Peace Academy" here and a Jewish high school of course, and a slew of Catholic schools, naturally enough. Those parents made choices. The parents who only want babysitters are getting what they asked for. But you cannot fault the teachers for that.

Anyone who owns and operates a small business knew this before the article was published. And anyone who owns and operates a small business says bull sh*t to the media. The problem with teachers is that they are pretty much immune to the fluctuations of the market place. Tenure has made them recession proof. I doubt any of them would survive running a business.

Doesn’t it also depend on what the perceived value of what they teach? Imagine the deep resentment of someone that viciously believes that the value of their marxist teachings is worth so much more than some lucky guy that started a car company that won the “capitalist lottery.” Now imagine almost every left bent teacher thinking this.
If it’s fair value they want, they should be charged heavily for schooling marxist ideology to children. Similar to criminals who hand out drugs to children.

My uncle retired from a 30+ years teaching in public schools in 1985. At that time he was making more than $55,000 in annual salary for working 9 months a years. He got benefits of more than 25% an top of that- virtually free medical and dental care for life, and his pension was over 2/3 of his salary.
I assure you that teacher pay has gone up substantially since 1985.
Many public school teachers are overpaid baby sitters who deliver propaganda mindlessly that destroys the lives of the young people they brainwash.