They're worse than a joke. They have done a lot of damage to ranchers in Arizona and New Mexico. Particularly in urban areas and the halls of power they are taken seriously, not laughed at.

Look up Ron Arnold's Trashing the Economy, 2nd edition, for a summary of all the major viro pressure group lobby organizations, what they have been doing, and the enormous sums of money they have been spending on it. The book was published in the 1990s and the money and power has increased a lot since then.

They're even here in northern Arizona and known as fluffy bunnies or neo-luddites. They want to turn back time to dirt roads and no city government.

They're already into Arizona. The leftist ideology in general is spreading everywhere, not just carried in by migrants. The misanthropic viro nihilists in particular are already active in Arizona. There aren't as many forests there, but the same preservationist eco-socialist mentality has been destroying ranching and grazing of cattle for decades. All natural resource extraction is under attack everywhere.

The historical context is that this controversy is now very old. The viro activists, i.e., wilderness preservationists, have consistently been against logging and have been doing everything they could to interfere with rights of landowners (nationally). They have been openly trying to stop all logging on public lands including all National Forests since the 1990s, and for much longer stopping as much as they can on both public and private land through government controls and acquisition of private property. (For example in the late 1980s they began a big push to "greenline" 26 million acres of northern New England with a Federal takeover for new National Parks with strict controls over whatever would have been left of private property.)

In some states, such as California, they have gotten away with more of this than others. The restrictions and forced wilderness preservationism has led to the wild fires such as the current disaster, but this isn't the first time; it has been happening for decades. It is worse in places like California in part because of the worse restrictions and in part because of the dryer and more windy conditions there.

Against that background and the threat of worse fires, Brown gave in and partially reduced existing restrictions on cutting trees despite opposition to the reform from the viro pressure groups, who want even more restrictions. Obviously the partial reduction in wilderness controls has been too little too late to stop the wild fires.

The sentence in the article, "Brown urged state lawmakers to loosen restrictive logging regulations put in place to appease environmentalists", means the restrictions were originally imposed to appease the viros, not that loosening them was to appease the viros.

The viros are forced through public embarrassment and fear of losing political power to now "admit" that "some thinning" is required, but they want complete control over what is thinned and where. The "admission" is like their concession that some energy production is necessary -- they just won't approve of any that is practical on a large scale.

I have one big fear is that the fire burnt citizens will start moving to Az. Many that have moved here bring with them the same ideological philosophies that have burned down California also their fear of people carry firearms on them and then what to change the laws in Az.

The way I read it:

Gov Brown proposed changing the rules to allow more tree cutting so as to thin out the forests. ( so presumably to reduce fire risk).

The enviros objected, they wanted more restrictions to reduce cutting.

So, Brown had proposed some measures in the right direction (inadequate perhaps? ), there were 'ardent environmentalists' who may have agreed with Brown, but there were even more ardent enviromentalists who were able to stop the change.

Can you confirm?

Daily Wire: "TRUMP WAS RIGHT: Jerry Brown Eased California Logging Rules Back In August" https://www.dailywire.com/news/38520/...

Yes they are doing that, but it's more than people migrating and bringing bad ideas with them, the bad ideas are spreading from being broadcast everywhere in books, teaching and the media.

If addressed to ewv, I supposed it's all right, if ewv's one of us. But don't invite the Californians to go be with you in Texas! Do you think they'll change their ways once they get there? Ha ha! Very likely they'll try to turn it into another California! Seems like it's that way elsewhere! People leave the cities to go into the country, and I hear that, once there, they try to bring their city ordinances there, against the animals in the fields, etc. And people have been coming from D.C. into northern Virginia, and it looks like they're trying to change this state into another D.C.!

Carne adovada is probably my favorite. It can be the base for burritos and enchiladas, too.

All for the same reasons? Where are they going?

Almost everybody I know is leaving...

You bet. I remember eating a dish in old-town Albuquerque once...carne adovada - pork marinated in chili peppers then made into enchiladas. I eventually found the recipe and it started off my love affair with food.

True, a number of them come from the "cold" states.

The seven day supply issue is a good point!
Hawaii has some potential pitfalls in a crisis.

Guessing that that train will never make it to the front lines, where the wall is.

The smoke is so thick here (several miles South of the Camp Fire north location) that it is like being blanketed by white air. We can't see the surrounding hills only a few miles away. This condition is expected to last for a long time with no possible dissipation of the smoke: the cold nights push the layer to the ground and the daily sun is not strong enough to warm it so it could rise to the atmosphere.

Moonbeam doesn't think he is accountable (was anyone made responsible for anything under Hussein?). He is still chasing his high speed train to nowhere that will put the State in permanent red for a long time.

But hey, we welcome the South American migrants now in Tijuana with open arms! Harris went as far recently that she saw similarities between ICA and the KKK.

These rabid leftist are trying to outdo each other: who can come up with a more unbelievable or outrageous lie. The tragedy for the people that eventually they believe their lies and try to steer the country to this false direction.

I think it was a 60 minutes interview with gov brown where he showed the 60 minutes host around the "ranch" that brown plans to retire on. I seem to recall lots of open and cleared areas.
The un-capitalized names and titles in the above text are an intentional lack of respect.

California aint seen nothin yet. In a year or less Gavin Newsome will have doubled down on the ignorance. Free healthcare for all is only one nail for the coffin.

Mismanagement through wilderness non-management is the direct source of the problem.

"Globulwarming" and "Climutchange" has me smiling, ewv. Thanks, I'll keep those terms in mind and perhaps you won't mind if I use them on occasion.

"...and "natural" is not the standard of what humans should tolerate." Agreed as my area and home are now covered in ice and snow and yet I'm sitting here in a t-shirt typing away as the gas furnace turns on automatically when required.

I do, however, don't believe millions of acres of forest can be managed to the point where these fires will be totally avoided. Perhaps some management around populated areas could reduce the magnitude of disaster, though. Forest management is far from my field of expertise so my comments may not be worth much regarding same.

Atlas Shrugged makes a marvelous argument that you should never expect competence from liberals. They march to a different drum where while they expect competence from others they are never required to exhibit it themselves. California, where I live, is a textbook example of this. When "good thoughts" are more important than ability to perform only disaster can result and people will die.

And California is the country's most populous state?! I bet not for much longer. The ones who don't get killed are probably going to want to get out.

Hey dear, come to Texas. I pay 0.056000 KWH for electricity. My entire home (8,000 square feet) is electric. I do have a natural gas 20KW Generac. I called the new city manager yesterday to welcome him and told him I wanted a street bordering my property to be a 4-way stop sign because I live in a School Zone and there is no sidewalk on that particular street. He's working on it!

Freezing weather in the winter and heat waves in the summer are also "natural". But what happens "naturally" with weather and results like these fires depends on what phase the changing climate is in between ice ages, etc., and "natural" is not the standard of what humans should tolerate. Forests should be managed to avoid out of control fires. The viro left likes fire as "natural" while simultaneously blaming the destruction on Globulwarming (one word, now made obsolete by "Climutchange" to cover everything) allegedly caused by man.