If that were true, there would be no problem.

Most people who are "engaged by a cop" haven't done a darn thing wrong. Nor had they, even in the past when (most) cops gave (white) people the benefit of the doubt. But the state now bans so many behaviors (and even situations) that aren't wrong at all, that no one is safe from cops.

The problem is that there aren't any angels to police us. We have to make do with humans, and that means they have to be held accountable like everyone else.

Probably true, but I'm sure it also reflects the fact that the system doesn't call it a "crime" when cops beat up, rob, rape, or murder people just because they can get away with it -- and if you don't think this happens very often, you and I are not living on the same planet.

Of course, even a lot of cop activity that is actually authorized by law (or at least tolerated by management) is just as evil as the unauthorized actions if not more so. All drug enforcement, for instance, belongs in this category, and so does enforcement of anything else in the very broad category of victimless crimes (see Ringer's "Restoring the American Dream" if you can't come up with the list yourself).

We may be at greater risk now, with plenty of cops around, than we would be without any. And if that's so, then the whole argument against anarchy collapses.

That is exactly what I was thinking. I knew someone would put it into words. There are a few other exceptions but very limited. The term is way overused. :)

Depends how they lose that life/limb and what they were doing and supporting to incur such a loss. A cop busting into a home as part of a SWAT team that gets shot down by the homeowner is not a hero in any form, he's a brazen bully that got what he deserved. A firefighter that rescues a kitten from a tree is not a hero. No one just doing the job they are hired for is a hero. No one supporting and working for a corrupt, rights abusing, or force using government can ever be a hero. A man that accepts principles of others calling themselves his leaders or betters and dies supporting such is not a hero.

The man that bases his principles on life and every man's rights to that life and all that goes with that life, lived without initiative force in the face of all opposition to that ideal, that man is a hero.

I agree wholeheartedly! IMHO the only place the term hero should ever be used is for the military person who lost life or limb during a military campaign. I could extend that to a civilian and police officer/firefighter to a very limited degree with the same criteria.

Indeed! It brings to mind the entire nonsensical issue of mis-using the words, leaders, protection, heroes, etc. for those that work for the government.

Well stated!

It may not be more dangerous now but I suspect it will be soon at the rate we are going.

The only thing I can argue slightly is the job of the police. I believe their job is to investigate criminal activity, not to protect us. True, if they take a criminal off the street it protects people from a future crime but a crime has to be committed before they can stop them. So in reality they are hired to clean up the mess. They carry a weapon to protect themselves not others.

Respectfully
Ed

That said, here is a counter argument based upon an egregious breach of Constitutional rights:

http://personalliberty.com/court-denies-...

At least the courts were able to brand the operation what it was: legal thuggery.

Whoa... Before condemning all "death by cop" scenarios, lets take a deep breath and analyze the situation a bit.

I looked at the latest 10 deaths (as of 12/24/14) and other than what appeared to be a murder/suicide of a cop and his wife (and even that could have been a double-murder as the report is not definitive), ALL of the deaths were clearly JUSTIFIED. Hell, you point a gun at a cop and expect what? We need to add some rationality to the conversation. Someone should take on the job of analyzing ALL of these deaths and provide CONTEXT before we simply brand 'death by cop' an epidemic; simple statistics without context is more than useless, it's dangerous. What the hell do we pay them for but to protect us (and themselves) from the nuts and evil in our society? This clearly puts a target on their back. They have a very difficult job and should be held to a very high standard but convicting all cops because of statistics is patently unjustified.

Personally, I think that our society has become more dangerous than when I was young because of the altruistic pap taught in our schools and churches, and spread via mass media. Technology has also made the planet smaller in the sense that bad people can move about more quickly and inflict more damage. It's no wonder cops are paranoid.

Thank you :-)
Thank you :-) Loved your book also.
Thank you :-) Loved your book also.

Indeed, and thanks for laying it out in plain language.

Sig Sigma subltties aside, the POINT is the SAME!!!.

VERY, VERY, VERY few deaths by cop vs., the number of times cops are engaged for "something."

Sub-point being the cops do not need "fixed", retrained. What needs fixed is the part of our culture that exalts bad behavior, and parents who leave their bastard monster brats to do whatever they want all their life. THAT is what needs fixed. And your "nit picking about millionths is ludicrous at best when the main point does not change at all.

I am going to answer this, just tomorrow

hi Tom,
it stands for gender/race

HELP The 3rd column in the spread sheet is labeled "g/r" - can anyone tell me what that stands for???

1114/11,302102 = 0.000098. When you convert that to a % you multiply by 100, giving you 0.0098%. So not as far off as you indicated.
Next on a Sig Sigma chart, based on parts per million, i.e. number of arrests vs. deaths the Chart working from 1 Sigma to 6 sigma looks EXACTLY like this.
Sigma Millions DPMO Total Flaws /(Deaths)
6 Sigma 11.302102 3.4 38.43
5 Sigma 11.302102 233 2,633.39
4 Sigma 11.302102 6,210 70,186.05
3 Sigma 11.302102 66,807 755,059.53
2 Sigma 11.302102 308,537 3,487,116.64
1 Sigma 11.302102 690,000 7,798,450.38

This places death by Cop, not necessarily errors at between 5 and 6 Sigma. Companies would have wet dreams if they achieved that. Even IF your only looking at a noticeable statistical sampling across this country, 400 out of 17,000,
Again I will reiterate Cops to an OUTSATANDING job and efforts need to be placed elsewhere in "fixing" the issue.

I detect a hostile tone in the thread, perhaps it is just me, and in any event I simply point it out and move on. First, the reported deaths. The report we are talking about is to the FBI, who is keeping the statistics, not reporting in general. Yes all deaths are reported to somebody, but not to the FBI. Second, there is an old saying in the prosecution world: Any prosecutor can convict the guilty, but it takes an extraordinary prosecutor to convict the innocent. Most defendants plead guilty due to “sandbagging” — which is the prosecutorial practice of laying on as many different counts as possible with the hope the high number will influence the defendant to plead guilty rather than face up to life in prison. How may in prison are innocent? I have no idea. There are organizations that work in this area, and if you seriously interested, I suggest contacting them. And keep in mind the majority of those in prison are there due to victimless crime violations, which we Objectivists also consider to be a travesty of justice.

Oh goodie, even less chance of being killed by a cop based on the full context of this thread.

Well lets see. I am quite sure that ANY death, or injury where someone had to be treated by a medical professional due to an action proper or not, WAS reported. The only thing that may have been unreported was the total number of actual times the police were dispatched. Notice the FBI report were "reported" arrests. so yes you can make an extrapolation and an assumption.
1) Just based on the number of REPORTED arrests, and the number of people killed you reach .0098%.
2) KNOWING that there are most likely FAR MORE unreported dispatches of police the % chance you will be killed most certainly goes down even further.

I am not sure what about reasonable statistics people do not understand, so my explanation and reasoning was not flawed at all. And based on ONLY what was reported, and understanding that all deaths most likely were reported, .0098% is almost 99.999% perfect witch is the holy grail of six sigma quality control.

Also if your using samples, 400 out of 17000, and also understanding that those that DO report are not generally the small town of 30,000. your national percentage would still be roughly the same. INSIGNIFICANT number of deaths by cops. Then you can break those down of the deaths that the VAST, VAST, majority someone WAS doing something bad.

So as an ex-cop, here is my question to you , how many "innocent" people ARE in jail? We know some are, but how many really are?

There ya go now THERE is an ideal warning that needs stamped on butt and barrel of every gun..

WARNING, display of, pointing of, or use of this firearm in the direction of people or police can be harmful and/or fatal to your health.