I might have been unclear, and if so, I apologize.

I can not police anyone else's threads other than my own, the same is true for any Producer (specifically the "Hide" link)

I was merely offering my Two Strike Policy for you to use as a template if you choose to.

Again, kudos on the policing.

They only have so much time on their shift. Spend more time on one and you spend less time on another. The focus would be on maximizing tips, which means the minimum amount of time per $1 of tip. Encourages gaming the system- spend time and attention on who you think are going to be the big tippers, and just keep the others from complaining. Most of them will be shamed into leaving at least 10% even if the service is very minimal. Its just a bad system I think. I want the manager to control the service level and the employee wages.

I'm more than happy to allow you to control the thread, I just thought it prudent to remind term2 that we in the Gulch pride ourselves on the merit of our arguments rather than on the temperature of their delivery. ;)

blarman, a few points.

1) I'm having fun with this, so no worries on my end.

2) That said, I sometimes wonder how many Producers know that they can (and should) police their own threads. So, kudos to you for knowing that and following through.
I upvoted your post, not because I thought that policing was needed (like I said, I'm having fun with this), but that *you* thought that policing was needed and you followed through on it.

3) When I feel the need to police one of my threads, I reference my Two Strike Policy. Feel free to use it or come up with your own version
http://www.galtsgulchonline.com/posts/6d...

Biggest issue with eliminating tipping is the overhead increase for the restaurant.

It makes a tough business much tougher to keep running.

I tip well for politeness and good service.
If service is dismal or the server rude or nasty, I tell the manager.

Even if there was not tipping required, I would still tip for excellent service. Outstanding work should be rewarded, especially given its scarcity.

If you can't disagree with people politely, ie without name calling, you will quickly get voted down and out of the community. It's okay to disagree, but not to be disagreeable.

I wholeheartedly disagree. One of the best waitresses I've ever had was at a place in Texas where I took my brother and a couple of friends to celebrate his impending wedding. She was simply outstanding: she never let our water glasses get empty, she engaged us in honest, thoughtful, and interesting dialogue while remaining professional, gave us honest suggestions on hors d'oeuvres and entrees, and substantially added to our dining experience. I tipped her VERY well despite knowing I would never be back to that restaurant.

I've had other experiences where the waitress was far less professional, was pushy, or simply non-attendant. I've certainly had those who were inept at small-talk or those who were so aloof or harried that they didn't even try. The point to me is that they were all different, but all had a significant impact on the experience at that establishment on that night. They are the main point of contact. I fully endorse letting management know if things aren't quite right and separating cooking snafu's from serving behaviors, but I also don't pretend that a mediocre server is of similar value to me as a good - or even outstanding - one.

And yet you keep replying to my comments...
Have a nice day.

I'm not quite following you here. Your contention is that service is equivalent to a fixed-size pie and the servers get to dole out the pieces to their customers. I can't reconcile that idea with the reality I'm familiar with. I can't quite picture why being polite, cheerful, and professional would have a lifespan or limit on use.

If you were my waiter, I wouldnt tip and wouldnt go back. Perhaps you can find other customers to tip you. Your attitude sucks.

I still want the wage negotiations and service level to be done without me in the middle. I agree on the "administrative" fees. I dont frequent restaurants where they add 20% automatic tip. They should negotiate wages and if the total price is too high, I just wont go out to eat there...

Might be nice for a change to order via ipads or some sort of electronic thing handed from person to person in a party- eliminating the need for the server to take the order (and try to upsell the customers). Fast food places should all use kiosks with their limited menu where you enter your email address and it saves the things you normally order. Same with sit down restaurants- I usually ifnd things I like and order from that grouping

Servers can be friendly or they can be impersonal order takers. I prefer friendly, it can make a positive difference in the quality of the overall restaurant experience.

I, for one, agree with everything you said. . I married
a medical secretary who was first attracted to me
because I treated her decently, at my doctor's office,
where she was the checking-out desk person.
our marriage is solid because we respect one another
first and love one another second.

your personal service will be better if you show the
people some respect, and our current system
requires that some of their pay come from tips.

get with it, or work to change it (referring to term2).
open a restaurant where the people don't work
on "instant commission." . post it, and watch your
wait staff get rich on spontaneous tips!

Thanks, Rick! -- j

In my area (Michigan) wait people are paid below minimum wage knowing that tipping makes up the difference. When employee salaries go up the cost of the product goes up. Without tipping there is decreased incentive to hustle. The wait person is your ambassador to the kitchen. Bad food gets sent back. That said, I was in a new restaurant in New Orleans (Paladar 511 - awesome) and noted all tips are split between the enitre staff. Pros and cons with this but I suspect the staff will know who is pulling their weight on the floor and who is sloughing off. If service and food are poor the business will fold. If service and food excel the whole staff will be happy. Time will tell.

However, the lower a level of payment for service (or product) you can get to, the more efficient that service becomes. I agree with you regarding the entitlement mentality - the "expected" tip should be 0 for bad service (and I do that when deserved) and as much as you want (sometimes more than 20%) for good service (and I do that too, when earned). If I inadvertently walk into a restaurant that automatically adds 20%, I walk out, never to be back there again. The owner of that restaurant in NYC, despite her proclamations of customer service, etc., is simply being dishonest - if she wants to add 20%, she should do that right on the menu, which she is required in NYC to post outside. Let the customers know what the real price is, not add "administrative" expenses after they received the bill and feel embarrassed to argue. Generally, those types of establishments have bad service (understandably), but many of NY restaurants are doing this because they simply can't get good waiters at all.

Look, how's this?

You deal with waitstaff the way that you choose, and I will do the same.

You refrain from replying to me with generalizations like "You are on of those people" and I will do the same.

Have a nice day.

When they do that we always introduce our entire party by name and tell her we are her serving people.

The problem is that over time the percentages go up and up with customers vying with each other to get "better" service. In the end the servers win, the restaurant loses, and the servers become "entitled". Its just not a good system. Let the managers set the service level for all the customers, and negotiate with all the employees to get that service level.

If I am pleased with the service, it pleases me to leave a tip.
I recall being very unpleased decades ago. I showed my displeasure by dropping a quarter into a glass of whatever I had been drinking.

So if you are treated better, then others are treated worse. What a great deal for the restaurant !! I say stop the practice and let the manager and employee negotiate to get the service the restaurant owner sets for his establishment. That way all customers are treated the same. Your approach results in the tipping amount getting larger and larger as each customer tries to get better service than the next one. Not a good system.

Did I mention anything about the percentages that I tip?

No, I did not.

So who loses out? The restaurant. As if the restaurant's purpose was to provide good tips for the servers. I say get rid of tips and leave customers our of employee-employer negotiations .

I resent giving "expected" tips and the entitlement mentality it encourages in the servers.

I tip as it is part of the culture. This is truly wrong I understand that as it is not my place to pay workers of any company. That falls to the employer. But my tips are always in cash and always at least 15% (again the culture). Also I do not like the term "a living wage". It is a subjective term not an objective term.

Tips should be banned. They discourage good service. The manager should insist on good service and pay what it takes for him to get that. Being a waiter today seems to take no skill at all. Why should they make so much money? A good server doesnt announce their name; doesnt butt in to conversations just because THEY happen to want to make it look like they are serving you; and doesnt look the other way when walking around to prevent customers from getting their attention