wellsir, they're sure gainly in wartime!!! -- j
.

Yes indeed you would roll over. At a certain point everything breaks loose and goodbye. No thrusters or anything else, pretty much not needed. Just need to be careful in how you handle it, they are very big ungainly beasts.

no thrusters for personnel comfort. . rolling sixty degrees back and forth.
there could be some nausea involved!?!

the ballast tank idea is pretty stupid, it seems to me. . even if you
could time the blows tight enough, you would sink. -- j
.

High speed is the hard part, when you are still, the ocean has complete control, I was in a Trident broached in 30 ft waves taking 30-35 degree rolls. I have been deeper in the North Pacific with rolls from storms up top. We had an XO once who tried to get the CO to let him experiment with blowing only one side of the ballast tanks, we luckily put the kabosh on that brilliant plan. And they let them play with nuclear reactors! I knew it was time to retire.

like in aerobatics -- inverted, you push forward to rise;;;
on a wing-down turn, the rudder becomes a wing.

I had just heard, from a submariner, that roll control
is difficult in a sub. . I bet that it's a real bitch when
sitting still !!! -- j
.

Mass is the key, even with the huge power available, it is rarely seen, the most often that I am aware of is when an SSN is at very high speed and you have to be careful how much rudder you use, but that is due to the fact as you lean into it, the planes start to act like rudders and the rudder like a plane. Overall the bulk stops any issue like that, IMHO.

Thanks! . roll in the airplane world is like rolling a cigarette -- around
the long axis. . pitch is nose-up or -down, and yaw is turning left or right.
if you suddenly gunned the prop at slow speed, it would seem that the
boat would roll the opposite direction (prop clockwise; boat CCW)
kinda out-of-control because of the lack of water flow across the planes.
or so it seems. -- j
.

Emergency Propulsion Motor about 325 HP electric.2-3 knots with a tailwind. By roll you mean pitch, as in up or down? Side to side was always driven by sea state, if you had more than a state 2 sea, odds on, you were getting sucked up to the surface and broached. You always wanted them about 30 degrees of the bow to minimize the suction from the surface, as your planes had little effect, in fact at 2 knots or below you had what was called stern planes reversal where they actually acted backwards, mainly because drag is a bigger factor than lift, just like an airplane.

EPM? . at 2 kts you have very little roll control, because of low
water flow across the planes, right? -- j
.

There is acutally very little torque apparent to the ship, and it is all opposed by the opposite plane, as well as the sheer bulk of the boat. It has never been apparent to me and I was a Diving officer on Tridents. Going to periscope depth on the EPM at 2 knots, now that was messy. I think that the fact your propulsion is right down the center may be part of it, you have reduction gears hooked to the shaft so there is a lot of cushioning effect from them.

Funny we are discussing this met my retired Naval Reactors buddy, who worked for Rickover for dinner last night! Strange coincidence.

Nick, I have an operations question. . the sub tries to turn -- roll --
in the opposite direction when the prop is engaged. . how in the
!@!@@##$# do you keep that from happening? . spin the prop
and invert the sub? . are there thrusters or something,
when starting off from zero speed? . the planes can't correct
for the prop spin until you're moving through the water!!! -- j
.

The PBS thing was really good, the guy who played him was really impressive. The one I am thinking of I will have to delve through my FB page, to locate, but it was also a 60 minute one, that was really interesting, especially in how he solved the issues.

Oh, thats an oldie. Be carefule, they always take some liberties. Battleship was one of the most egregious, along with Crimson Tide. CT had the unending small arms locker, I kept expecting them to drive a tank out of, and the passageway from hell that went on forever. Thats because they filed it on a French Aircraft carrier after the Navy told them no way were they making it on a Trident. The Navy had agreed to use the USS Florida, until they saw the script and went "WTF?".

right now, we're watching Under Siege ... love them sailors and their ships!!! -- j
.

You mean the Rhode Island PBS thing, with an actor playing Rickover? That was awesome! I need to get a copy.

If you find the YouTube video, I'd love to see it, but that is a different guy. My buddy was a NRRO (NR version of Supervisor of Shipbuilding). These are the guys at the shipyard overseeing construction.

I was just now talking to another retired NR buddy of mine at work. He now consulting for Bath Iron Works where we supply a bunch of equipment. He was a Rickover guy.

Nope, he actually had a bizarre set up made from old car alternators rigged up to wind, and he used an inverter he built to handle the conversion, it is on a web site something like "American Home Power" or something, that tells you, shares stories and stuff on how to. Actually a AR type of site because it also tells you how to fight the battle with power companies who try to tell you you can't do it.

John, let me think on that, but a surprisingly good place is You Tube, I have found some amazing stuff on there that I had no idea existed. Poke around for "Aircraft Carriers, or Nuclear Submarines".

Nope, but PBS did an excellent special on him about 6 months ago, did you see it? I was a Coner, I was up front, and only mingled with the nukes when I either need something as a duty chief, or they needed something from me, or field day in the engine room. The guy you met may be a guy that a friend of mine (who was a nuke) sent me alink to a youtube video on, he was the guy who basically was able to convert Rickovers vision into working mockups, he built a mockup of the Enterprises engine room so they could build all the pieces and actually run and maintain it, and Rickover liked him and had him as one of his "go to" guys. He did go out on a lot of sea trials to see how things worked for the sailors and took their feedback into account for the next design.I can find the video if you want.

Did you ever meet him? I've meet most of the following NR 4 admirals, but not Rickover or McKee.

The stories from those that did are something else. I had retired NRRO guy that worked for me that went out on sea trials all the time. Rickover liked him for some reason. The stories he had were very cool.

Nick, could you recommend movies for accuracy about the
nuclear Navy? . both subs and -- maybe -- carriers? -- j
.

did he have to call the power company and ask them to
put another generator online, when he needed to recharge? -- j

p.s. like in that Chevy Chase Christmas movie?
.

Nukes have one set of cells, and diesels had 2 (fore and aft) as that was the only power source submerged, unless snorkeling. Nuke batteries have one main purpose, to restart the reactor if needed, along with the diesel.

Submarine batteries are a whole different take on batteries. The cells are about 6 feet tall, 24" square, and usually were at 1.5-2 volts, and carry a bizzilion amps. I have seen some cases where people bought used ones for home power storage, using wind or solar to keep them charged. Guy had 6 of the for 12 volts and ran them to an inverter and could run his house for 3 days with no recharge.

I would say he was at least in the same train of thought, he followed his own mind first, and was basically someone who used whatever tactics were necessary to succeed. Never saw anything addressing the topic though.