Some things never change
Posted by Ben_C 9 years, 3 months ago to Government
Seems to me we have heard this before. Note the author of this piece. Another Ayn Rand?
While we're very happy to have you in the Gulch and appreciate your wanting to fully engage, some things in the Gulch (e.g. voting, links in comments) are a privilege, not a right. To get you up to speed as quickly as possible, we've provided two options for earning these privileges.
I'm happy to say Bolshevik Bernie picked the right left-tilting country to lead the rest of the way into socialism.
We ain't just got vodka. We got all kinds of hard liquor to drink. Well, for the present anyway. There is always moonshine to fall back on.
There's also all kinds of funny stuff to smoke, pop and to shoot up with too.
Want to have any real fun in a socialist system? Be a black market profiteer! Just don't get caught by the red fuzz or knocked off by a rival cartel..
Big Brother may eventually provide that along with every freaking thing else.
think that people who believe in Socialism can be
persuaded to the contrary, because of its imprac
ticality. Whereas I believe that people who be-
lieve in Socialism do not care how impractic-
al it is; they just believe in an evil, inverted
morality, and want to feel good about them-
selves for promoting it, no matter how miserable
they make the victims--in fact, I think that the
more miserable they make the victims, the more
they will enjoy it.
Good find. Worth saving.
Thank's,
O.A.
.
Below this lies the outer party. The outer party consists primarily of the "true believers". These are the people that actually believe in the promise of Socialism. For them Socialism is a secular religion complete with dogma, sinners and saints. Anyone that challenges the authority of the state is anathema and excommunicate.
At the base of the pyramid lies what Orwell referred to as the "Prols" or Proletariat. These accept Socialism because of its promise to separate action from consequence and the assurance the state will provide for all needs.
The fundamental flaw lies in the fact that while this kind of system functions well for social insects such as termites, ants and bees it is unsustainable when its members are individuals. It is for this reason that individuality is strongly discouraged in Socialist and Communist systems for the individual sows the seeds of destruction of the collectivist state.
Does anybody teach realities of such regimes to the young? It seams to me not.
I was lucky to slip out in 1962.
"I would have liked to review Animal Farm—though I consider it a very bad book; but it has great historical significance—as an eloquent and frightening revelation of the mind of a modern socialist. (l mean, the author. The book is not anti-Communist, you know. It's merely anti-Stalin, but pro-Communist. This should have been said in reviews, but wasn't.)" -- Ayn Rand in a 1946 letter to Kelsey Guilfoil, of the Chicago Tribune's Magazine of Books
lot of popups, blockups, side blocks and some verbiage that couldn't be read.....So?
For the rest of us well worth reading. look at the bar at the top with traveling topics and find Sanders then after reading lose Sanders.
I know. When a fundamental change to the economy, like the introduction of agriculture or industrialization, shakes things up, it can lead to really bad decisions. I don't think we're on this path, but it's a real risk. It feels like people feel automation and IT shaking up the world in a radical way, and I looking for radical approaches. I hope we are not on this path.
The quote was from Dr. Conor's article, and I agree with it.
I do not accept the claim that the school system promotes socialism, but even if we assume for the moment it did, I would still be surprised by the support for Sanders. The reason is socialism has to take from the producers to help the poor. Sanders seems to have many promises for the middle class and even upper middle class. He only mentions the billionaires paying for this stuff. If you stole all the billionaires' wealth, it would not pay for all this. That's why I share Dr. Conor's surprise.
operated and -administered) education? I say that
it does not protect man from force and violence &
punish same, therefore it is not a legitimate gov-
ernment function; and furthermore, that since education teaches thought processes, the gov-
ernment should definitely not be in charge of
it, as it has to eventually lead to government
thought control. We should have separation of
education and state, as we should have
separation of church and state. I mean that
public education should be abolished outright.
Having choice in education is personally crucial for allowing those trying to avoid the coercive imposition and make their own good choices, and it is necessary to stop the complete stamping out of rational individualism in education, but if school choice were to become widespread with no corresponding improvement in what is generally accepted and taught, we would only see a lot of private money going into bad education, just like we see enormous wealth going into helping government destroy private property rights.
Understanding the philosophical basis promoted in schools means not being surprised when the students come out 'idealistically' supporting a flailing, agitated 70 year old socialist Sanders.
We are blessed with good teachers for both kids. I feel for people who try multiple schools that teach socialism. If I had encountered two bad schools in row I'd probably be depressed too.
When we interviewed the new school, I asked several questions of the vein "what's your ideas/philosophy/opinion on [insert mundane task]". What I was looking for is a reaction that the question doesn't make sense. I wasn't being tricky. If you asked that first school, "what's your theory on which door kids should enter from," they'd have a long answer. I want the attitude of "who cares which door? Your kids walk in through one of them, and we teach them things." There's obviously more to it, but that's a good starting question IMHO. If they've got theories on every trivial aspect of life, they're more likely to teach ideology.
"Pragmatism with altruist and collectivism premises as the standard and the goal."
The only time in my life I've ever been a party to a law suit involved this, so I've seen it. I hope it was the exception and what we're getting now is the rule. Maybe we just got lucky with these teachers.
"not being surprised when the students come out 'idealistically' supporting [...] Sanders."
I can't speak for Dr. Conor, but I have been surprised because of the math, not because of the ideology.
If the only time in your life you think you have seen Pragmatism is in a law suit, then you still don't know what it is. It's everywhere. You have been lucky in having the current teachers, or they may be good in some specific teaching skills but with bad underlying philosophy you don't know and don't understand. Pragmatism is an ideology.
The numbers Sanders get are because of the ideology, which is spreading and becoming worse.
My thought is that is a possible predictor of they have more significant ideological axes to grind. If they say, “Children need rhythm that mirrors the motion of the skies, so they should enter through the east and depart through the west,” or anything remotely like that, they're not for me.
"Understanding the principles of education takes more than "teach things"."
Maybe my bad experience at the very first school we tried causes me to set the bar low. I want my kids to learn the facts and tools to find the facts. Their age is a great time to indoctrinate someone into an ideology, and that's precisely what I do not want for them. All I want is for them to pick up tools to examine reality. In my lowbrow words, just teach them things.
"If the only time in your life you think you have seen Pragmatism is in a law suit, then you still don't know what it is."
I don't get this part. I mean, if I don't know what it is, what are we talking about?
I'm not a philosopher, but from reading the Ayn Rand books, I think of pragmatism as saying since we use models to understand the world and models are imperfect, there is not true reality. We can say for sure how efficient a tranformer is and we can use Maxwell's equations, but this is just an expedient, they say, to get something working. We shouldn't think, they say, that science brings us closer to understanding the nature of the universe. In my non-philosopher view, post-modernism is a more extreme version of this, in which they don't even believe we can know how efficient the transformer is b/c of the biases of the observer. They rightly point out that human observation is unreliable. Instead of finding ways to work around human frailties, they throw up their hands and say nothing's real anyway.
I don't know if that first school was planning on teaching stuff like this when they got older, but I imagine so. I could tell you the stories, but I try to put it behind me.
We did hear a story second-hand last week of this type of thing. My wife has a college student working PT in her practice. He said he was in a TA-facilitated discussion in some liberal arts class. The TA said she believed in a radical form of socialism that had no money or trading. Some of the students asked questions like "how would they deal with something that's scarce but get me made through work?" After a few respectful but critical questions, the TA said the students were not "respecting her space" or some words like that and then left the class in protest. I can't imagine that when I went to school in the 90s. The student who works for us thought it was bizarre but seems more used to this concept of living in a zone protected from uncomfortable questions.
That suggests to me there's a real problem, but I resist the urge to say "kids these days..."
The best way to get that context and contrast is Leonard Peikoff's superb recorded lectures on the history of philosophy.
https://estore.aynrand.org/p/95/found...
https://estore.aynrand.org/p/96/moder...
The proper principles of education do not mean "ideology" as apposed to "things and facts". If you don't understand what is guiding the kind of education today versus the correct goals of thinking and learning and how to conceptualize them, you are at the mercy of what you don't know. "Just teach them things" isn't enough. Listen to Leonard Peikoff's recorded lectures on the philosophy of education https://estore.aynrand.org/p/64/philo...
"In this five-lecture course from 1985, Dr. Leonard Peikoff presents a philosophy of education based on Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism. The course addresses such topics as the purpose of education, proper teaching methods, and a proper curriculum.
"In addition, Dr. Peikoff presents and evaluates several competing theories on the basic purpose of education. He draws from Ayn Rand’s philosophy to present a number of principles for effective teaching and also shares tips and techniques that he developed over the course of his many years of teaching. Finally, Dr. Peikoff discusses his views on why the current education system is failing, and what can be done about it.
"This course is intended to be of value to those in the teaching profession, especially those in primary and secondary education, as well as to parents interested in ensuring that their children receive a proper education. But the lectures are designed to be accessible and enjoyable for a much wider audience.
"This course assumes prior familiarity with several concepts from Ayn Rand’s philosophy, such as her views on the contextual nature of knowledge and the inter-connectivity of knowledge.
"The course is followed by an extended open Q&A period on Ayn Rand’s philosophy of Objectivism. In total, the audio is 8 hours and 27 minutes long."
And potentially at the mercy of those who do know and are being deceptive. I'm going to start with Founders of Western Philosophy when I finish what I'm currently listening to. Thanks for the recommendation.
I don't believe in the left/right thing anyway, so I would see the Core Republican/Democratic Values thing as innocuous unless there was some other political element in the assignment. Even Core Democracy Values, would be questionable, since it downplays the limitations on majority rule in a republic. I would also dismiss that as a wording-choice issue, absent some other sign of politics.
The other day my kid's reader said something like "he put it further from the house." I struck a line through further in pencil and wrote farther.