Economics as it Should Be

Posted by dbhalling 8 years, 3 months ago to Economics
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I gave a talk at Atlas Summit on ‘Economics, Evolution, and Rand’s Meta-Ethics’ and one person asked me how my ideas would alter economics. In my talks and in my book Source of Economic Growth, I suggest that economics needs to be rethought from the ground up based on my findings. Here are some of the ways economics needs to be changed in order to make it a science. Go to the link for the full article
SOURCE URL: https://hallingblog.com/2016/07/25/economics-as-it-should-be/


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  • Posted by mminnick 8 years, 3 months ago
    Let me start off by saying I have the greatest respect for your comments and opinions. They always make me think they always make me re-examine my position in life. Sometimes they are philosophically disturbing.
    Your discussion of economics especially the definition you give for economics got me to thinking. Your definition states “Economics is the study of how man obtains those things he needs to live.” When I first read this I said to myself this is correct, it is a good definition. After thinking about it for a little bit it occurred to me that this is the basic definition of a “hunter gathering” space economy. Not that the definition is fundamentally incorrect is just not complete. It is the use of the term “needs to live” that is the limiting factor. What a person needs to live is in fact a very limited and restricted concept. I think what we’re talking about is the creation (the idea), manufacturing/generation of that concept, the distribution of the product (a.k.a. goods and services) that are wanted by the consumer.
    Implicit in this is the acknowledgment that the goods and services have some words to the producer and to the purchaser. The second implicit assumption is that consumer has something of value(money, goods, or services) that the creator/producer values or has used for. Note I have not use the term “needs” in this short discussion. This brings up the third implicit assumption. That the producer and consumer have their basic needs (food and shelter clothing) met either by creating them directly or by exchange of goods and services to obtain them. This is a slight extension the basic definition because it allows for the active trade of goods and services between consenting people.
    This is as far as my current thinking has taken me. As I developed further thoughts on this I will post them as appropriate. Again my thanks and appreciation to D. B Halling for a great post and stimulating ideas. Keep them coming.
    +1
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      Thank you for your input. There is a theory that once you are able to meet your subsistence level of living, then our economic activities are not really about meeting your needs. Just because you have enough food for today or for the next week or even next year does not meet all your needs are meet and anything extra is just for frivolous wants. The evidence is overwhelming that people work to make more because people who are wealthier live longer.

      I am certainly open to alternative definitions of economics, but they must tie economics to our biological reality.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 8 years, 3 months ago
        "those things [which] he needs to live" logically includes
        "those things which he wants, to live," which includes
        art and pleasure and savings for the future. . as long as
        we keep this in mind, you are exactly right! -- j
        . .
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          This is what I have in mind

          “If an organism fails in the basic functions required by its nature … [it] dies.”
          Ayn Rand, Virtue of Selfishness

          In fact in my talk I show economics is being parallel to how Rand develops ethics except that ethics focuses on goals and economics focuses on knowledge.
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  • Posted by Lucky 8 years, 3 months ago
    There s some great material here.
    Criticism- this could be a personal phobia but I'd like to see the definition of economics without the word 'need'.
    (Reminds me of ' .. to each according to .. ')

    Maybe-
    The study of trade in property, goods and services.
    The why, how, and when they are produced and acquired,
    who creates and produces, and who buys and uses them.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      I completely understand your point of view. The definition must tie economics to the biological realities of life for humans. If you can do that without using the word need, that would be great.
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      • Posted by Ed75 8 years, 3 months ago
        AR states that a "need" of man is to be productive or at least feel that he is productive.
        If one includes this into the meaning of "needs", then an expanded understanding of the definition of Economics Mr. Halling is using can be understood.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
          No I am talking about the needs for survival - you will die in 15 minutes if you do not get air, you will die in 3-4 days if you do not have water, 2 weeks without food, etc. That is what economics is about Even today you will die if you have a disease without medicine, you will not survive a hurricane without shelter. Economics is not a game, it is about the reality of survival.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 8 years, 3 months ago
    I would just add liberty as the start of the causation chain. Without a great deal of freedom, it makes great difference in economics whether there are problems to solve but those capable of solving them are not free to do so. That does not mean that with little liberty everything would stagnate but rather that progress would be close to being frozen as it had been in some places in the 20th century and today in North Korea.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 3 months ago
      I have looked at that. If you ask what creates wealth you come up with invention, but what allows inventions are two things freedom and property rights for inventions/inventors. Property rights, including patents, are built on Natural Rights. So you end at the same place as if you just look at what is objectively moral.

      Interestingly however you can protect most property rights and be mostly free, but without patents (in the world - does not have to be any one country) then real per capita incomes do not grow.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 3 months ago
    Excellent take, I like your questions and definitions a lot better than the one's I was taught in Economics back in the seventies. However, even back then, we weren't asking who will produce, who will distribute or what will we produce...we might have called these questions stupid back in the day. But many professors did love Keynes.
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