Hi. My name is... Robert Smith
Posted by Boborobdos 12 years ago to The Gulch: Introductions
I'm very happy to have landed in the Gulch... I hope to get some insights for when I watch and discuss the movie.
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Previous comments... You are currently on page 23.
Isn't McD providing the opportunity? There are many levels of skill in companies. The more skill one provides the more cards one holds. The idea is to move out of the first level of employment. The problem with how unions set up, the lowest common denominator unskilled labor position gets paid eventually as a higher skilled position. It is not free market and is irrational from the company's perspective. It's one reason pension plans of lowest skilled workers can bring down a company due to salary and benefits. What is the incentive for an unskilled laborer to move into the next bracket? Time in the position with one company should only be one of many factors in wage increases and pension. It has become the number 1 factor through unionized labor.
Jamestown was a corporation as a business venture, to make money (for the British empire). It was run cooperatively until people started dying. Only when the seed was distributed among the remaining settlers and they were told to fed for themselves did the colony make a resurgence. In other words a cooperative/ communist approach failed and self interest saved the colony.
Pretty much only when it's a government program might it work as you suggest.
ROFL AJA... Very few folks build a company so others might work. They generally do it for power and money or money and power.
Rob
Let's see how that worked out: "Captain John Smith became the colony’s leader in September 1608 – the fourth in a succession of council presidents – and established a “no work, no food” policy."
BTW, it didn't solve the root problems.
As they say, "And there is MORE!" Let's take a look at when they really turned the corner and enjoyed financial success with tobacco. From the same page: "The first documented Africans in Virginia arrived in 1619. They were from the kingdom of Ndongo in Angola, West Central Africa, and had been captured during war with the Portuguese. While these first Africans may have been treated as indentured servants, the customary practice of owning Africans as slaves for life appeared by mid-century. The number of African slaves increased significantly in the second half of the 17th century, replacing indentured servants as the primary source of labor."
BTW, in America we finally decided that people can't be "property" when slavery ended. What's the justification for "property" being people?
Rob
Human beings do not improve things... a human being improves him/her self and that improvement extends to those around them. If enough do this society changes (The United States of America as opposed to the rest of the world - Jamestown is a pretty good example about individualism over the cooperative)
Nobody is really alone. It takes society to build the infrastructure for folks to make money from it. That includes roads, schools, a healthy labor pool, and defense. That's not "socialism" but common sense.
Yes. It can (I realize there is some corruption) lead to folks getting by on a little less for awhile so they as a group can get a better wage. At Micky D's if an individual hits the street they are immediately replaced. The corporation / owner has all the cards. When employees can act together (as individuals can do, for example no single person can win a war, remember Ender is fictional) we as human beings act as a group to improve things.
Besides, a corporation is simply a bunch of people who have gotten together to run a business. Why can't a union be a bunch of people gathered together to provide labor?
Rob
Unions? A cancer. Yes, unions served their purpose for a time securing safe working conditions and a fair wage for their members. That time is long past. Employers, I've been one 3 times in my life, have to treat people with respect by offering a solid wage, health care, time off, and vacation time to keep quality people. If McD's in NYC, or any business, is treating its employee's poorly, those employees can always quit. If enough people quit and continue to quit the company is no more, right? Does a union need to collect money from the employees to tell them to quit a job where they aren't being treated properly? Hardly. The union is there simply to strong-arm an owner into acquiescing to the demands of his/her subordinates - the people he agreed to pay wages to for a level of service rendered so they could survive. Look to Detroit for the shining example of unions and what they can do.
Can you say that sometimes unions are good for society?
Rob
"Them and us" is often a tactic used by leaders to rouse up the masses. Whether pitted against the darn government, Muslums, or "fags" (as in the case of the ripe rev. Phelps) some pending apocalypse because it's "their" fault is often used.
Fear and Greed speak for themselves.
BTW, are you falling for rush limbaugh bs? See, I can use lower case too.
Rob
Alternately, Rozar has link under Entertainment to a "Cracked" magazine put-down of "Atlas Shrugged" in which they note that while many CEOs claim to embrace the book and movie, in fact, most of the bad guys are themselves other CEOs.
Then you get into tax breaks. Objectivists argue well that you should be able to keep your money or get it back, especially if you are a corporation. But in a society where taxes are pervasive, one entity's breaks are everyone else's burdens. The practical effect can be seen in Detroit where GM especially but all the automotives cleared out whole neighborhoods of homes, sending people into other communities to pay taxes there, while GM et al did not pick up the tab for their own properties. It's complicated. Better to live your own life and mind your business.
I think you're falling for msnbc b.s. People who earned their retirement are not moochers, and there are some people who cannot work, but the entitlement programs are so abused, and the gov encourage them to be abused (advertising food stamps etc)...and "the wrong color" comment you just made is nonsense. Business owners who are hiring want good workers, period, age, skin color, and religion is not a factor. Where do you get this from?
Define "them and us", and also "fear and greed".
Fact is that our society has many people who earned their retirement. We also need to admit that there are health reasons why some folks can't work. Further, there are also folks who can't get a job because they are too old, the wrong color, or the wrong religion.
Why do so many draw such heavy lines? "Them & Us" is usually motivated by either fear or greed.
Rob
Rob